Canadair CL-84 for AEW at Falkands?

Admiral Beez · Mar 20, 2017

Could the Canadair CL-84 be used for AEW/AWACS from HMS Invincible and Hermes at the Falklands War?

The challenge would be fitting and lifting the Gannet's AEW set-up.

I assume the CL-84 wouldn't fit down the lifts on Invincible, but it may fit on Invincible. Otherwise deck parking will have to be the norm.

If it can't lift the AEW, perhaps the Hiller X-18 is the better option?

Riain · Mar 20, 2017

It would only need to lift the Sea Kings AEW kit: the Searchwater radar from a Nimrod MR2 and a pair of radar operators. Can it do that?

Zheng He · Mar 21, 2017

I agree with the earlier post, will likely need to be deck parked like the E-2Cs were on USS Midway and USS Coral Sea.

Peg Leg Pom · Mar 21, 2017

The disgusting thing is they had the plans for the Sea King A.E.W. before the war but weren't allowed to do the conversions. Presumably because only Aircraft Carriers needed A.E.W at sea and Britain only had Through Deck Cruisers, aircraft carriers being deemed politcally incorrect.

Admiral Beez · Mar 21, 2017

Would the Canadair CL-84 offer any advantages over the Sea King A.E.W?

Peg Leg Pom · Mar 21, 2017

Higher altitude, and speed. Less endurance though, so it would need further development to increase that. Maybe doing short takeoffs instead of vertical would help, that way the engines only have to generate all the lift for landing, when the aircraft would weigh less.

Zheng He · Mar 21, 2017

Peg Leg Pom said:
Higher altitude, and speed. Less endurance though, so it would need further development to increase that. Maybe doing short takeoffs instead of vertical would help, that way the engines only have to generate all the lift for landing, when the aircraft would weigh less.

Altitude would be the big advantage. You should be able to do rolling take offs just like the Harriers did.

Peg Leg Pom · Mar 21, 2017

It's also got a big advantage over the Osprey. If the tilt mechanisim fails they can at least try to make a short landing reversing the propeller pitch to brake quicker. It works the US landed a Hercules on a carrier that way, without arrestor wires.

Riain · Mar 21, 2017

I don't know if extra altitude would help given the power of the radar it would use. While the big E3s etc have very powerful radars that can see a long way to take advantage of high altitude I think the fighter size detection range of the Searchwater is something like 100 miles. This means that an altitude of ~5000 ft puts that 100 mile range down to sea level. Going higher, say 10000 ft puts the radar horizon at ~140 miles, beyond the detection range of the radar. What's more I think the Searchwater radar scan picture is a donut, with a blind spot in the middle, and the Sea King goes up and down as needed to track targets with regard to the donut.

Admiral Beez · Mar 21, 2017

Peg Leg Pom said:
It's also got a big advantage over the Osprey. If the tilt mechanisim fails they can at least try to make a short landing reversing the propeller pitch to brake quicker. It works the US landed a Hercules on a carrier that way, without arrestor wires.

And unlike the Osprey the CL-84 could use the ski-jump, since its props clear the deck with a slight tilt.

I've also read that the CL-84 had a ceiling of over 20,000 feet. That would make for good radar coverage.

Peg Leg Pom · Mar 21, 2017

It saves fuel and so increases endurance, and doesn't cost any extra to do so. That'll please the ene, er sorry the Treasury.

Admiral Beez · Mar 21, 2017

It is a neat looking aircraft, just shouts out for serving at the Falklands.

Peg Leg Pom · Mar 21, 2017

Admiral Beez said:
And unlike the Osprey the CL-84 could use the ski-jump, since its props clear the deck with a slight tilt.

I've also read that the CL-84 had a ceiling of over 20,000 feet. That would make for good radar coverage.

It strikes me that this is a plane that can act like a helicopter, whereas the Osprey is a helicopter pretending to be a plane. While that is of course a difference in semantics it give a,suggestion of how the two design teams went about solving a particular problem. The Canadian team makes a plane hover, while the US team makes a helicopter thats as fast as a plane.

Nevermind the Falklands, the RN could use for the two Queen Elizabeth class. 4 AEW and 2 COD per carrier plus reserves and a training squadron on shore.

Admiral Beez · Mar 21, 2017

Peg Leg Pom said:
It's also got a big advantage over the Osprey. If the tilt mechanisim fails they can at least try to make a short landing reversing the propeller pitch to brake quicker. It works the US landed a Hercules on a carrier that way, without arrestor wires.

I'd say this is the safer option vs. the Osprey.

Sazzer · Mar 22, 2017

Can't really think of a reason why not except it may be more than a little cramped for space on the Invincible class carriers

Anderman · Mar 22, 2017

The Secret Projects forum has a thread about the CL-84 including the AEW variant for the american "sea controll ship"

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4267.0.html

the AEW variant looks like this

Since i saw this the first time i am always thinking about about a Hermes sized ship with RR Olympus turbienes in a COGAG sheme with P.1154 harriers and CL-84 AEW instead of the Invincible class