Canada vs USA: or How do you make allies into enemies?

Good evening everyone.

I have been wondering this for a while. What changes should be necessary to have the United States and Canada against each other in the late 70s to early 80s, with a PoD starting at the end of WW2? The idea came after reading "For All Time" time ago, noting how Canada became so distrustful of the United States that they had their own nuclear arsenal pointing to the US. But considering how bizarre is that timeline, I'm not surprised.

But I wouldn't count on Canada getting communist and getting aid from the Soviets, that would be too cheesy. What do you think?

Thanks and take care.
 
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By the end of Bruce Pope’s short novel Killing Ground - the Canadian Civil War Canadian Armed Forces ‘volunteers’ are in active combat against US forces. The later, under a dubious UN cover, have intervened in a civil war in Quebec, after more extreme elements of the separatists closed the St. Lawrence Seaway.

The Canadian government objects strongly to American intervention and, perhaps ironically given the earlier events of the novel, send ‘volunteers’ to support the Quebec separatist forces against US forces.
 
"... But I wouldn't count on Canada getting communist and getting aid from the Soviets, that would be too cheesy..."

Sorry, but I so wanted this to be about cheese smuggling over the border! :)
 
Somehow, and don't ask me for details, have a waffle-dominated NDP come to power in the mid-70s and try to nationalize or at least canadianize every yankee-owned business operating in Canada.

This would be enough to seriously get Washington's goat, but then let's assume that all this nationalist chest-thumping inspires similar movements among indigenous Canadians, and we get a bunch of latter-day Riel Rebellions(or Okas avant la lettre, depending how you see it) across the nation, directed mostly against the Canadian government.

At first, the waffle government will be like "Gee, things aren't perfect up here, but don't these natives realize how good they've got it compared to if they were living in the USA?". However, basic left-wing orthodoxy would still preclude the government taking a tough stand against the rebels, instead prefering a rather futile string of negotiations.

And for extra giggles, the independence-movement kicks up again in Quebec, partly motivated by a desire to get out of Canada before the First Nations revolts make significant incursions into the province. But of course this just provokes the indigenous rebels to up their game against the Quebec government.

Ouf of all this, you'd probably find some rationale for US military intervention. Maybe the waffle gets voted out, and replaced by an old-line party that "requests" American assistance in quelling the various uprisings. Points for irony if the waffle had pulled Canada out of NATO, thus allowing the yanks to carry out a direct invasion without violating the founding Charter. (Otherwise, maybe the Americans fig-leaf their intervention by sending their troops in as "advisers".)

TL/DR: A combination of Canadian-nationalist radicalism, First Nations militancy, and Quebec seccessionism provokes an armed American intervention.
 
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This would be hard to do with a POD later than 1900. The Fenian Rebellion of 1866 is one possibility. In 1867, at the end of the Civil War, there was some threat the US was tempted to take the Union Army and keep going north. in 1902 Teddy Roosevelt mobilized troops in Alaska as part of his brinksmanship in negotiating the British Columbia/Alaska border, but it was likely diplomatic bluster.

But from 1911 onward the perceived threats to Canadian sovereignty were from proposed free trade agreements and monetary union slowly erasing the border. By then the pattern had been set that Canada and the US would fight through diplomatic spats.
 
Not gonna happen. Both are too closely linked by language and culture and shared values, in addition to geography. Canadians may like to complain about the US and Americans but in actuality both countries are quite close knit and have positive opinions of the other.

Also, it's kind of impossible for Canada to be enemies with the US, if for no other reason then one is infinitely bigger the other. If Canada were ever a serious enemy of the US (don't know how it could happen with a postwar POD) America would just fund the hell out of Canadian secessionist groups in Quebec and Western Canada.

I suppose you could make Canadian foreign policy more anti-American postwar. No Reagan-Mulroney partnership and a longer Trudeau-esque foreign policy and you might see a more antagonistic relationship between Washington and Ottawa develop. But that antagonism likely wouldn't go any further than diplomatic gestures, our people are too closely bound for it to be any more than that.
 
a longer Trudeau-esque foreign policy
And That foreign-policy would have to also be WAY more radical in its content than Trudeau ever was, in order to provoke armed intervention from the US. Trudeau never even entertained the idea of withdrawing from NATO or NORAD. He cut defense-spending, but that was at worst an annoyance to the US and other allies, not a casus belli.
 
America gets taken over by an evangelical hyper misogynistic theocracy in the 1980s, leading to millions fleeing north before the border is closed and weaponised...?
 
And That foreign-policy would have to also be WAY more radical in its content than Trudeau ever was, in order to provoke armed intervention from the US. Trudeau never even entertained the idea of withdrawing from NATO or NORAD. He cut defense-spending, but that was at worst an annoyance to the US and other allies, not a casus belli.
Oh I agree 100%. Trudeau may not have been Washington's best friend whilst he was in power, but he was definitely still an ally. Diversifying trade options hardly compares to pulling out of either NATO or NORAD.

I wasn't even entertaining an armed intervention in this second scenario, more a breakdown in the political relationship between Washington and Ottawa, which kind of came about with Nixon's proclaiming that the Special Relationship between the US and Canada was 'dead.' If that trend continued, then you might get the kind of poor US-Canada relations that I was referring to.
 

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Why is 99% of people all talking about Canadá going socialist ir communist. I see a much more likely that conservatives or ultra conservatives in the 1950s and 1960s take over America and destroy American democracy. Putting a democratic Canada bolstered by hundreds of thousands or even millions American refugees against right wing dictatorship government. American democratic crusaders based in Canada try and influence Americans to overthrow American dictator government. This leads to US government closing the American border to Canada. A huge task costing large amounting $$$. They also jam Canadian / free American radio and television from reaching Its population.
 
And That foreign-policy would have to also be WAY more radical in its content than Trudeau ever was, in order to provoke armed intervention from the US. Trudeau never even entertained the idea of withdrawing from NATO or NORAD. He cut defense-spending, but that was at worst an annoyance to the US and other allies, not a casus belli.
Oh I agree 100%. Trudeau may not have been Washington's best friend whilst he was in power, but he was definitely still an ally. Diversifying trade options hardly compares to pulling out of either NATO or NORAD.

I wasn't even entertaining an armed intervention in this second scenario, more a breakdown in the political relationship between Washington and Ottawa, which kind of came about with Nixon's proclaiming that the Special Relationship between the US and Canada was 'dead.' If that trend continued, then you might get the kind of poor US-Canada relations that I was referring to.
That said it would be interesting to see how a Trudeau-esque Ameriphobe would handle the USCGC Polar Sea controversy.

It's worth noting that Mulroney, who was actively trying to mend fences with the US at this time, felt compelled to try to acquire nuclear powered attack submarines for the purpose of enforcing Canada's arctic sovereignty. Someone like Trudeau may have tried to build his own rather than give up when the US invoked the 1958 US–UK Mutual Defence Agreement to prevent Canada from buying British nuclear subs, or at least raised a much bigger stink.
 
Good evening everyone.

I have been wondering this for a while. What changes should be necessary to have the United States and Canada against each other in the late 70s to early 80s, with a PoD starting at the end of WW2? The idea came after reading "For All Time" time ago, noting how Canada became so distrustful of the United States that they had their own nuclear arsenal pointing to the US. But considering how bizarre is that timeline, I'm not surprised.

But I wouldn't count on Canada getting communist and getting aid from the Soviets, that would be too cheesy. What do you think?

Thanks and take care.
For All Time's US kind of went off the deep end, lmao
 
Have the energy crisis in the late 70's spiral out of control with the United States Government committing a series of diplomatic blunders in trying to solve the issue but only deepening it and making it a global pariah. The oil embargo continues for years as neither side can reach an agreement. A wave of right wing populism starts to grip the nation influencing the media and public opinion while the economy crashes. In the coming years Canada starts to realize how much more important the Tar Sands have become as it puts them in the power position during trade negotiations with the United States and start dictating terms to them underestimating just how desperate and how bad the American economy is becoming. As negotiations fall apart the United States launches an invasion aimed solely at Alberta seizing the Tar Sands and dislodging Western Canada from the rest of the country. War can't be contained and spreads all across the border region. Nato splits apart taking sides and several Commonwealth Countries threaten to come in on the Canadian side of things. The Soviet Government condemns American actions while remaining hands off the Yankees are doing more damage to themselves than any Soviet tanks or missiles could. After a new administration takes office and cooler heads prevail Moscow hosts the peace summit and is able to interject themselves into trade talks selling their own oil to the Americans. This creates hostility between the United States and Canada lasting to the present.
 
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