Can United States Conquer the World?

If you think all these other countries will start a nuclear war that will lead to their own obliteration if the US tries to conquer Mexico and Canada, you're very naive.

Who cares if it's the 21st Century? Russia ground Georgia into the ground in the 21st Century and nobody did anything to stop it.

Yes, and Georgia's a tiny country. By the time the USA has developed the arsenal and military of the size to hold and occupy the entire North American continent everyone else will be ready to fire the nukes first. Defeating Canada would be rather simple. Even Mexico can't hold on to Mexico.
 
Hmm,

If the OP is suggesting now, i would wonder who is to pay for Operation Infinitely Liberated Freedom. Not the Chinese i suspect.
 

Riain

Banned
The defeated countires would pay, they'd be thouroughly plundered of their wealth and taxed to the verge of revolt. And then the grip would be loosened with the next conquerst and the earlier losers would develop Stockholm syndrome and get on board for the next conquest. It worked a treat for the Nazis.
 
Nope. It's the 21st Century now, if they tried by the time they proceeded to launch large-scale wars across North America Russia, France, and the UK will turn the USA to green glass. The end.

And America would respond in the same, and we'd be left with just a few sparse areas free of enough radiation for things to grow and animals to live. If America tried to conquer the world outright it'd end up most likely with mutually assured destruction between all combatants.

If you think all these other countries will start a nuclear war that will lead to their own obliteration if the US tries to conquer Mexico and Canada, you're very naive.

Who cares if it's the 21st Century? Russia ground Georgia into the ground in the 21st Century and nobody did anything to stop it.

With all due respect, conquering Canada and Mexico are hardly comparable to world-wide conquest. I'm a proud Canadian who loves his country, but if and when some American president decides he'd like Canadian lands administered directly by the U.S. he can probably move in and take them- it's not like we could do a whole lot or would do a whole lot. It'd do a lot to wreck the reputation of the U.S. world-wide if it needed guns and we seemed like we didn't agree, but it's not nearly the same as trying to go off and conquer China or subjugate Russia. Small countries aren't worth firing nukes for, but big countries and big wars... that's when they come up.

If the United States went out of their way to conquer something outside their respected zone of influence, especially something big with a lot of nukes, a history of antagonism with them and a strong willingness to prevent the U.S. from international conquest, it's not going to end well.

Most importantly, I don't think the U.S. public gives a damn about world conquest. Hell if anything, they want to tighten their borders and deal with other countries less. That doesn't stop them from ever starting a war but it pretty much condemns them to fail. Wars without the support of the public have gone pretty horribly for the U.S. over the past century, and there's nothing I think that suggests it's about to change in the immediate future.
 
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Sachyriel

Banned
First person to tell the United States President that the USA can't conquer the world to his face wins the thread... I'm sure that conversation will go far...:p
 
I'm not so sure. At the end of WWII the USA was in the best position, sure, but all the same there's still a hell of a lot of Russians for the USA to defeat and I'm pretty sure that if they tried for world domination the other Allies would not exactly just sit back and take it, either.

Well UK and France can go along with the new world order or starve to death. See state of Europe's economy post WW2. When war ended and US ended Lend Lease UK had problems and it was restarted.

How much patience would the US masses have for trying occupy all of Europe, Asia, South America, Australia, and Africa at the same time?

See in my first post, the answer is none. US population wasn't interested in making a world wide US empire. Neither is current US population. My answer is purely from a military capability point of view.

Michael
 
The US had difficulty holding up Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you want to erase the US from the map? China and Russia alone could rain nukes on every American city. Canada and Mexico could exhaust the US resources even if she did conquer them. Don't mention EU, Iran, India ad Anzac.
 
The US had difficulty holding up Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you want to erase the US from the map? China and Russia alone could rain nukes on every American city. Canada and Mexico could exhaust the US resources even if she did conquer them. Don't mention EU, Iran, India ad Anzac.
your forgetting that china and russia would be eliminated as well by american nukes
 
your forgetting that china and russia would be eliminated as well by american nukes

By then, the world would be an apocalyptic ruin thanks to some intoxicated bystanders who insisted that US should conquer the globe. :D:D

I say: "Radiation-Spangled Banner".
 
Destroing american dreams trough bad spelling:

Lets see:
-The US nukes all the bigger Asian countries (+Russia). Assuming many Russian Missile/Radar operators are drunk so they don't manage to counterattack (allready unlikely). For this first strike to work total surprise is necassary. So it has to be the first major move the americans make (Russia would certainly go to full alert if the US invaded lets say Japan). This has the unfortunate side effect of warning all other countries ("Hey Obama has just changed his first name to Adolf!"). The industrialised ones will try to get nukes/more nukes asap. Every one thats not allready broken or has a very stupid gouverment will mobilise. The US migth still get Canada, Mexico & Saudi Arabia by surprise. But for all other countries they have to attack against well prepared forces. Good Luck :D

I really doubt, that this nuking would work without a deadbed-counterstrike. There is also the problem of explaining it to the american public. And I remember reading something, that a nuclear war has some unpleasant sideeffects (2 years of winter, fallout,...). Not to mention the economic consequences (no more Nike shoes for America).
But lets asume for a moment, that this plan works.

Now have a closer look on Europe.
According to wikipedia, US Forces in Europe are 96 000. With around 64 000 in Germany and 10 000 each in Italy and the UK.

In Combat forces that seems to be 1 Arm. Division, 1 ACR & lots of support units in Germany and an Airborne Brigade in Italy.
In the other European Countries there are only smaller bases with support & security. In many Countries (as allready mentioned for example in France) there are no bases at all.

What do the European nations have?

Italy has ~ 100 000 troops in the army (with ~200 MBTs), ~ 80 000 trops navy & airforce and 100 000 men paramilitary police.
We can assume that the Italian forces will perform poorly, but still better than any nation the US has fought since Korea.

Germany has a little over 200 000 troops with ~390 MBTs & ~ 280 fighter jets. They are organized into 3 armored/mechanized divisions 1 Airborne divisions & 1 heli division. German Divisions are currently down to 2-3 Brigades, so they are a little weaker than the US ones.
German forces are ~ equal to US forces in training and equipment.

The overall strenght of France & the UK is roughly similar to Germanies.

First conclusion: The US has larger fighting forces only in Germany & Italy.
US Forces in other countries can be dealt with by local police.

Second conclusion: The US forces in Germany and Italy are heavily ountnumberd. They are to weak to destroy these countries armies, but might be able to hold positions against them. (If the use clever tactics and only until these countries build up more forces/reenforcements from other countries arive.)

So what about the "quickly occupy the capitals" strategy?
This could work in countries where economic and politial power is centralized in the capital. The examples for such countries in Europe are France, Portugal, Ireland & Austria. But in none of this countries does the US have forces that could hold the capital even for a few hours.

Germany and Italy on the other hand are among the countries, where economic power is very decentralised. In Germany the same holds true for political power.
Italies industry is based in the North (especially in Turino & Milano) far away from Rome.
The German economy is even more decentral. Even if the US occupy Frankfurt and Berlin, this would not force Germany to surrender. (Would the US surrender if Washington & New York are occupied? And New York is far more important to the US than Frankfurt is to Germany)
//I do honestly belive that the German economy would benefit from the destruction of Berlin.

Third conclusion: The US can not take out a single European country (except maybe Iceland) with the forces it currently has in Europe.

We have also to take into consideration, that US Units moving out to capture key cities would leave their bases vulnerable to counterattacks. The bases were created under the assumption that the host nation is friendly, mainy of the smaller ones willl be quickly isolated and captured.

Fourth conclusion: The US will certainly lose many smaller bases abroad. This will hamper their war effort. US soldiers taken prisoner could also be used as hostages, if the Americans use civilians as "shields".

Airpower: US Airforce Europe has less then 200 fighter jets. This is inferior to the Germans alone.

Supply: Food and gas can be plundered. But where will the forces moving out to capture cities get ammo, spareparts...?
Supply by air would require an almost total air controll, which see above, is
unlikely.

Asia: The situation in Asia is similiar to that in Europe. Including Navy, the US have ~80 000 troops there mostly in Japan, Korea & Taiwan. In each case these forces, even given surprise, are no match for the army of the host nation. (Japan & S-Korea have each 200 000 - 250 000 troops. Some older equipment, but organised & trained to defend their nation in a conventional battle and not for peacekeeping in Wallwallaland.)

Loses: Germany, France, UK, Japan have forces equal or almost equal to the US. Russia, the other Europen Nations, Egypt & Saudi Arabia are worse but still better then Irak.
Firepower and targeting is much better than in WW2. We have not seen real battles between state of the art armies for 50 years. Manovers predict loses of up to 50% of all tanks & troops within a few hours.
Even if the US reenforce Europe & Asia within days their forces there could already be wiped out.

American reeforcements:
OK. Of course the US have more troops than those currently in EU/Asia and will reenforce them.

The Navy (including its air wing) is busy fighting enemy navies, securing transports and hunting Boomers (the submarines not the cylons ;)).They might even succeed but it will take them some time.

The US airforce is also superior to every other in the world and has the advantage of the first strike. But as explained above it will quickly loose many airbases abroad, as the host nation turns unfriendly. So it has to operate from North America an a few island-bases, while the enemy has his bases right on the battlefield. And this is an enemy that has Patriots, Stingers, Harriers, Mig-29, F-16, Eurofighters and all that :cool: stuff.
Quiet diffrent to Irakies, that train a few hours yearly in their rusty birds.

So don't expect miracles from the airforce.

That leaves ground troops.
I assume the US uses national guard and reserves for Mexico & Canada.
We also substract the forces allready tied down in Europe & Asia.
That leaves 4 Mechanised Divisions, 4 Light Infantery/Airborne Divisions, 2 1/2 Marine Divisons & Change.

Note, that some of this troops are currently fighting/recovering from fighting the War on Terror. That means:
1) they have combat expirience (good)
2) are tired/not ready for depolyment elsewhere (bad)
3) focussed on anti-guerilla operations and not on conventional war (baaad)

Just for comparison: The invasion of Iraq required 4 American & 1 British Division + change (all in all ~300 000 troops, not counting Iraqi opposition).

So what can the US do with this force?

1) Split it and send 3 Divisons each to Asia, Europe & the Middle East.
Most likely result: Draw in the ME, US Forces in Europe & Asia whiped out.
(see above for opposition & likly caussalities)

2) Focus on where they can win (& wining brings benefits)
Most likely result: Pyrrhic victory on one (max. two) theater/s, but the others have time to arm. US now allready overstretched and faceing fullscale guerilla wars in several countries, while at least two major enemies are still around (and not idle).

Note that in both cases Africa & South America are still free.
 
I'd like to see the USA nuke China, India, AND Russia without being destroyed in the process. Even China alone could wipe out every major US city.
 
Story: [Put story in here.]

Nuke-Spangled Banner

O say, can you see, by the nuke's glowing light
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars
From the perilous fight
O'er the nations we watch'd, we're so gallantly screaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the nukes bursting in air
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was not there
O say, does that nuke-spangled banner not wave
O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's nuclear subs in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
As radiation reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the nuke-spangled banner, O! long may not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that tank who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the shelling and gas
From the terror of bombs, or the gloom of the guns:
And the nuke-spangled banner in failure not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when Army shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause is not just,
And this be our motto: "In Nuke is our trust."
And the nuke-spangled banner in failure not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


Any suggestions for the bold lines?
 
"Would you like fries with that?" has already conquered the world. I mean, what the fuck is a fry? It looks and tastes like a measly, soggy chip.

Don't confuse fast-food culture with American culture. :( It is kind of sad that the rest of the world only knows America from the lesser aspects of populat culture.
 
actually,once the nukes start flying,(pretending of course,that the other countries dont retaliate or for some reason dont nuke america to crispy green oblivion.....) I would imagine many countries previously friendly to the US before the war immediately surrendering to avoid getting a nuked.
 
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The US had difficulty holding up Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you want to erase the US from the map? China and Russia alone could rain nukes on every American city. Canada and Mexico could exhaust the US resources even if she did conquer them. Don't mention EU, Iran, India ad Anzac.

China is to be blunt a null in terms of nuclear weapons vs. the US. They are a threat to Russia with a large IMRB force and gravity bombs but their ICBM force isn't that large. Its 20 CSS-4's with a single megaton range warhead, they are near clones of the old USAF Titan II's as I recall. Yes it sucks for the cities they hit, assuming they don't just explode when launch is attempted. Russians have the same maintenance problems with their own missile force.

Once the Soviet union collapsed all sorts of reported filtered in to the effect that the Soviet missiles were not being kept up and just rotting in the silo's.

Don't get me wrong the Russians should be able to lay waste to the US but only at the cost of their own annihilation, see my comment up thread.

As to Iraq and Afghanistan you are drawing a false conclusion just because we are fighting in those areas with highly restrictive rules of engagement, very gentle tactics and a very small manpower force compared to what we could have doesn't mean the EVIL AMERICAN EMPIRE with DARTH PRESIDENT would do the same. Fielding a 6 million man ground force, less than 2% of the US population wouldn't be any type of stretch, let alone the size of force that could be had by going all out.

Again the USA could take over Canada and Mexico and there would be NOTHING anyone could do to stop the USA from doing so.

Things after that become very much of a problem.

Lastly you are confusing that because some is saying the US could do something as anyone advocating / suggesting that course of action. The US has been a bad imperial power, we suck at empire, we would have to hire the British at least to do middle management.

Michael
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Depends on the definition of conquer.

The U.S. could start a war that would result in the death of 80-90% of the human population and might have a military force left that would over match any other pocket of pitiful survivors. That would allow them to conquer the world.

If you mean actually invade and control the rest of the World, not a chance. Even "conquering" Mexico or Canada would be close to impossible, both at the same time, utterly impossible.

If you mean inflict a military defeat it is just about certain that the U.S. could engage and defeat any non-nuclear state in combat and emerge the victor (nukes change the rules quite a bit, with escalation creating some very messy possibilities very quickly).

It is very likely that the U.S. could inflict a military defeat the nuclear armed Pakistan and a virtual certainty that it could defeat nuclear armed Israel (just not enough Israel or Israelis to change the outcome). The rest of the overt Nuclear Club present different, probably insurmountable, challenges. Taking this into consideration that more or less eliminates Eurasia from the conquest list.
 
Story: [Put story in here.]

Nuke-Spangled Banner

O say, can you see, by the nuke's glowing light
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars
From the perilous fight
O'er the nations we watch'd, we're so gallantly screaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the nukes bursting in air
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was not there
O say, does that nuke-spangled banner not wave
O'er the land of the free, and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's nuclear subs in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
As radiation reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the nuke-spangled banner, O! long may not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that tank who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the shelling and gas
From the terror of bombs, or the gloom of the guns:
And the nuke-spangled banner in failure not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O! thus be it ever, when Army shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause is not just,
And this be our motto: "In Nuke is our trust."
And the nuke-spangled banner in failure not wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Any suggestions for the bold lines?
Nah, keep it. It provides an ironic twist to the rest of the verses. I'll keep this for posterity if you don't mind.
 
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