Can stonewall Jackson take d.c ?

A point I put in on the Rebel Cry thread, what if Lincoln shows up on the front lines as he did at Fort Stevens. If he attracts a bullet how will that effect the war.

It ends up being called an assassination by the Republicans. It does in no way end the war and in fact, with Hamlin and his radical republicans now pulling the strings, and with Republican domination in the Senate and House, i would expect things to go worse for the Confederacy in the long run.

Lincoln may have been the Captain and Rudder of the ship, keeping it afloat and going in a certain direction, but he is not the only once capable of keeping the ship from sinking.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
There's also pontoon bridges, of course.


As for if Lincoln gets shot, that would hugely change things - I don't know enough to say much, but I imagine for example that POTUS Hamlin would put Hooker in charge of the AotP.
 
It ends up being called an assassination by the Republicans. It does in no way end the war and in fact, with Hamlin and his radical republicans now pulling the strings, and with Republican domination in the Senate and House, i would expect things to go worse for the Confederacy in the long run.

Lincoln may have been the Captain and Rudder of the ship, keeping it afloat and going in a certain direction, but he is not the only once capable of keeping the ship from sinking.

I would have to say a weak case for being called an assassination, while whoever pulled the trigger may or may of not known who they are shooting at, still been close enough to be shot is a bad idea.
The consequences of a change of leadership is the debate. Lincoln in o.t.l. is given great credit for keeping the Union together which is implied few if any others could do. His death at the beginning of the war can not be anything else than traumatic, not sure if that could be overcome quickly enough and someone with a enough strength to pull all the different political elements together to hold the Northern resolve together.
 
I would have to say a weak case for being called an assassination, while whoever pulled the trigger may or may of not known who they are shooting at, still been close enough to be shot is a bad idea.

Depends on how history is written. But yes you have a point.

Still, its the legally democratically elected leader of a nation is killed by an insurrection/rebellion, which is what the Federal government of the United States called it.

And the majority is still with the north.

The consequences of a change of leadership is the debate. Lincoln in o.t.l. is given great credit for keeping the Union together which is implied few if any others could do. His death at the beginning of the war can not be anything else than traumatic, not sure if that could be overcome quickly enough and someone with a enough strength to pull all the different political elements together to hold the Northern resolve together.

Yeah, i don't know what Hamlin would have been like. As i said, i can really only speculate on the fact that he and his radical republican cohorts would most likely be taking over.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Actually, if it is labelled an assassination - and with the Radicals at the reins - we might see the ACW getting more nasty. OTL it was a close thing where they nearly executed the crew of one of the privateer ships (I want to say Jefferson Davis).
 
Actually, if it is labelled an assassination - and with the Radicals at the reins - we might see the ACW getting more nasty. OTL it was a close thing where they nearly executed the crew of one of the privateer ships (I want to say Jefferson Davis).

It would be a way to push forward a republican agenda.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
So is Antietam and the Monocacy...

It occurred to me to check, and I notice that Gettysburg happens to be considerably north of the Potomac. Based on that, I assume the Potomac was crossable somewhere upriver. Is a turning movement up-around and descending upon the capital from within Pennsylvania completely impossible, or just hard?

So is Antietam and the Monocacy... those didn't work out that well for the rebels, however.;)

The Potomac is the border between Virginia and Maryland, of course; going all the way to Pennsylvania was something of a challenge for Lee et al in 1863; seems rather unlikely Beauregard and JE Johnston could manage it in 1861.

Here's a map:



You'll note the obvious problem for the rebels trying to go on the offensive after the Bull Run battle - along with McDowell's ~30,000+ in the Defenses of Washington (remember, of course, some 17,000 of which never even moved south of Bull Run and so were able to withdraw into the defenses in good order and with their artillery), there are Mansfield's and Thomas' garrison and militia in the District proper, and then there are another 16,000-18,000 fresh troops under Patterson north and west of the route that Operation REBEL STORM is presumably going to have to take to try and flank to the west of Washington...

Said 16,000, of course, includes 30 regiments of infantry, plus artillery and cavalry, organized into three divisions (1st, Dix; 2nd, Keim; 3rd, Sanford) with brigade commanders that include GH Thomas, Williams, Wynkoop, Negley, Abercrombie, and Stone, among others.

There are also, of course, the troops (USV and militia) available elsewhere in Maryland, as well as in Pennsylvania, which include (among others) the Pennsylvania Reserves.

There's also the minor historical problem that if one looks at a topo map of northern Virginia and southern Maryland, the obvious terrain features include the mountains, hills, rivers, and creeks that a) provide all sorts of ready-made defensive positions, and b) all sorts of channelization effects for a force marching north.

So, impossible in the abstract? No.

In the reality of July, 1861? Yes, pretty much.;)

In magical fantasy cavalier land of grey clad chivalry where equally magical rifle bullets fly like guided missiles, though, anything is possible:

"There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called The Old South...Here in this pretty world Gallantry took its last bow...Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their ladies fair, of Master and of Slave...Look for it only in books for it is no more than a dream remembered. A Civilization gone with the wind."

Best,
 
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TFSmith121

Banned
Considering the rebels lost all three times they tried

We already know the answer to this one, don't we?

Considering the rebels lost all three times they tried to operate with a corps- or army-sized force north of the Potomac, yep, we do. Glad to see you agree.;)

Best,
 
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