Could Sparta and Athens have reached an agreement, thus avoiding war? How would this agreement look like and what would be the consequences of no peloponnesian war?
Can Sparta and Athens reach an agreement to avoid the Peloponnesian war? How?
- Thread starter Gancio The Ranter
- Start date
Athens was growing more powerful by the day, confrontation was inevitable, an agreement would have only delayed things, like the Peace of Nicias did.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
Well, there's the possability of renewed Persian interest in stronger rule over the region for one reason or another which could provide a sufficent drain/hedge on Athenian power. Of course, that only increases the chance the King of Kings tries to utalize Sparta as a local tool and open up a tempting war chest, so you'd need some other events to line up as well in order for Sparta to not take the lunge for "permenant" security by exploiting it. Maybe have Athens get into a bidding war and the Spartans using the money to "redeem" the Spartans who'd been forced to sell off their public land claims, thus helping them solve their increasing manpower issues?
Still, unless there’s a major change in policy, it all just delays the conflict.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
It delays A conflict, but I can just see powers equalizing out enough (Especially if we see a rise of Macedon and Thebes as potential other power polls) that such a war woulden't be esclated into the hegemonic struggle to the death for decades that we saw IOTL. In order for the Peloponessian War to really break out in a manner recognizable as near our timeline's you really need to have a Greece where Sparta and Athens are really the only power-brokers; otherwise, its suicidal to pursue things to the hilt as they did (particularly for Athens, who runs the risk of getting her commercial-naval supremacy snached out from under her even without the rival actively siding with Sparta in the war)
Athens and Sparta basically were the only power brokers in Greece. Thebes, Corinth, the other cities? They couldn’t rival either of the two in late fifth century, and Macedon was still a long way from rising to the top.
Sparta and Athens were not strong enough to diplomatically control all their allies in such a way as to avoid war. The Peloponesian War started as a proxy war, where both Athens and especially Sparta got sucked into the conflict. Sparta probably didn't want a war at that point.
It’s certainly so, but eventually Sparta would have been faced with the decision to either subject itself to Athens or fight her, I doubt Sparta would have ever been in a position to desire a war, yet one would have surely been forced upon her, it was just a matter of time.
FillyofDelphi
Banned
IOTL, yes. However, given a slowed rise\checked Athens and slowed but continued decline of Sparta means there's room for the other poli to grow and provide something closer to a "decisive weight"\balancing factor. I'm not saying it's guranteer, far from it, but it does mean a hegemonic death struggle isent exactly inevitable