Can it Carry Bombs?
- Thread starter whatisinaname
- Start date
whatisinaname
Donor
Hi Riain
I agree with you, if the metalurgy had been better then the 004 and other German jet engines would have been much better.
Thanks
Whatisinaname
whatisinaname
Donor
Here is part 3, comments and support welcomed 
Thanks.
3.
This is one of the parts were I have had to “modify” the battles in OTL to allow this TL go well into 1945.
June 1944
Me-262 Deliverers for June 1944
Total deliveries of the Me-262A1a’s for June is 28 from the Augsburg production facility, the bulk of these Me-262A1a’s would be destined for Kommando Nowotny forming at Achmer and Hesepe and some going to replace the operational losses by EKO 262 due to accidents.
In early June, it was also decided that a two seat version would be urgently needed (a slightly obvious course of action that should have been done in 1943), production of this two seat version would come from Regensburg, which was in the process of restarting production with the first version of the Me-262B1a would come of the Regensburg production line in September 1944, several damaged Me-262A1a would also be converted to Me-262B1a from September onwards.
Production of the Me-262A0 has now ceased.
Invasion, June 1944 - D-Day
On the 6th June 1944, Operation Overlord would commence the operation was the largest single-day amphibious invasion of all time, with over 130,000 troops landed. 195,700 Allied naval and merchant navy personnel were involved. The landings took place along a stretch of the Normandy coast divided into five sectors Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and Sword.
First Actions
The first unit into action against Normandy was not a Jet unit, but a piston engine unit from the Jagdgeschwader 26’s was the first unit to commence operations during the Normandy invasion on the 6th June 1944 was conducted by Geschwaderkommodore Obstlt Josef Priller, flying an Fw-190A8 Black 13, and his wingman from his base at Lille-Nord, this event along with the first Me-262 action would be portrayed graphically in the book by Cornelius Ryan and the resultant film The Longest Day, along with the first Me-262 operation later that day.
Priller and his wingman Uffz Heinz Wodarczyk took off in their Focke-Wulfs and headed west at low altitude, dodging several formations of Spitfires in the process. Crossing the coast at Le Havre the duo spotted the ships of the assault force. The pair made a high speed-strafing pass over what was the British Sword Beach. Anti-aircraft fire forced the unscathed Focke-Wulfs to seek cloud cover.
The first jet fighters did not get into the air until mid morning these would come from Schreiber’s small unit of eight Jets.
Kommando Schreiber
For the first few days of June (1st to 5th), Kommando Schreiber had very little activity, as the bad weather for the first five days of June limited operations for Schreiber’s command. Schreiber used this time to increase theoretical training for his pilots and practical training for his ground crews, his ground crews would put these five days of limited activity to intensify there understanding of the Me-262.
Most of the first five days of June, when there was a break in the weather was used for flight training and the occasional interception of enemy reconnaissance aircraft. This lack of activity leads to only three kills during the first five days of June, two of these kill’s going to Schreiber.
With the news of the invasion, Kommando Schreiber immediately began to prepare for operations against the allied fighters and bombers, but the task faced by the pilots of Kommando Schreiber was daunting to put it mildly, they were so out numbered and the odds against them so high, it was figured that Kommando Schreiber would cease to exist within a few days at the most by Goring, this conclusion by Goring was wrong, as Kommando Schreiber was going to use different tactics against the massive amounts of allied aircraft arranged against them.
Kommando Schreiber was using the stalk-and-ambush tactics (also use successfully by Erich Hartmann and many others on the Eastern Front), by using this tactic it was estimated by Schreiber that 80% of the allied aircraft his Kommando downed did not even realize what hit them. He and his pilots relied on the powerful speed of his Me-262 for high-power sweeps and quick approaches, occasionally diving through entire enemy formations to take advantage of the confusion that followed in order to disengage.
This technique, as opposed to long-range shooting (not much use with the MK-108 cannons), allowed him to:
1. Reveal his position only at the last possible moment
2. Compensate for the low muzzle velocity of the slower firing 30 mm MK 108 by opening fire at the shortest possible range
3. Placing shots accurately with minimum waste of ammunition
4. Prevent the adversary from taking evasive actions
Not all of the pilots assigned to Kommando Schreiber would subscribe to these combat tactics, but those who did always managed to gain a kill when encountering allied aircraft.
The first operation on the 6th June would be a combat patrol over the Normandy landing area, by the time both planes were ready it was midday on the 6th June, two of the units jets had been lined up for takeoff, in one of the Jets was Schreiber, there mission would be to patrol over the Normandy area and engage any enemy aircraft encountered. To assist in takeoff Schreiber’s jet had been fitted with rockets, which not only got them into the air quicker, but also shortened the takeoff run.
After an uneventful and very quick takeoff, Schreiber and his wingman would steadily climbing to 30,000 feet (the opposite of Priller and his wingman’s approach), while heading towards the Normandy battle area, it was not long before they both spotted a large formation of B-26 bombers that appeared to be coming back from a mission over France. As they were both in a favourable position to attack, as both Me-262’s passing through the formation of B-26’s and opening fire with there four MK108 cannons, there is the distinctive noise of the four MK108 firing, the MK 108 30mm cannon had already earned a fearsome reputation among Allied bomber crews, who named it the “pneumatic hammer” due to its distinctive firing sound.
Once both jets had very quickly passed through the B-26 formation, during the pass Schreiber had downed two B-26 bombers and his wingman downed one. With fuel now running low both returned to base, without further incident, during the mission and the attack against the B-26 formation neither aircraft were intercepted by allied escort fighters or even received any battle damage, such was the speed of the attack the B-26 formation did not know what hit them. By the time the escort fighters realised the bombers were under attack, the two jets were already on there way home, it was a while before the allied fighter pilots realised that the attacking Germans had gone!
For the remained of the 6th June, the pilots of Kommando Schreiber would fly another eight missions and account for a total of nine enemy aircraft downed without loss, by rotating through the eight available jets on the 6th June Schreiber was able to keep all eight jets operational on the first day of the invasion of France, this was only possible because of the lack of activity during the first five days of June.
But, as the month of June went by the operational level of Kommando Schreiber Me-262’s unit would go down dramatically, due to the lack of spare parts arriving, to fix the broken aircraft, by the end of June Kommando Schreiber was only able to put two jets into the air and even then limiting to a maximum of two missions per day, as the other remaining six jets would be unavailable for operations, due to mechanical problems.
This severely limited the number of kills the unit could achieve in late June and early July, the total number of kills achieved by Kommando Schreiber by the end of June stood at twenty-one for no combat losses.
Even though the allies were aware of German Jets operating against them over Normandy, allied reconnaissance did not discover the location of the base of operations in France. This was due to the secrecy surrounding both Kommando Schreiber and the two Ar-234 prototypes flown by Sommer and Götz from the Juvincourt site, also all the jets operating from Juvincourt were heavily camouflaged from enemy reconnaissance aircraft.
As June wore on the lack of available aircraft for Kommando Schreiber, leading to limited operations, including several days were no combat operations would take place this also ensured that both Jet units operating from Juvincourt not being discovered by the allies, due to the lack of activity from Juvincourt. In addition the commencement of the V1 attacks on London was now receiving the full attention of the allied airpower.
Ar-234
The two Ar-234 prototypes flown by Sommer and Götz are able to fly daily reconnaissance missions over Normandy without be intercepted or even discovered, these two jets would bring back a wealth of intelligence information on the allied military build-up and possible lines of attack by the allied forces against the German Army.
Both the Ar-234 prototypes would remain operational throughout June, as reconnaissance work, was less demanding on the engines than fighter work, thus allowing the two Ar-234 prototypes to fly daily operations. By the end of June the information that had been provided by these two Ar-234 prototypes, was extremely impressive. Hitler ordered in early June that two reconnaissance squadrons be set-up for use in France and three for the Eastern Front and one for the Southern front.
The new reconnaissance squadrons would be equipped with the Ar-234B1, which would have a retractable undercarriage this would make takeoffs and landing much easier for these new reconnaissance squadrons, than the jettisonable trolley that Sommer and Götz had been using with the two prototypes Ar-234’s.
The first of the new reconnaissance squadrons operating the Ar-234B1 would be sent to the Eastern Front from the 15th June onwards they would play a significant role in changing Hitler’s mind about not allowing the German Army a more flexible approach to engaging the Soviet Armies.
The deployment of the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version first would come at the cost of bringing the Ar-234B2 bomber version into service it would not be until the end of June 1944 that the first staffel (squadron) of 12 Ar-234B2 bombers would become operational.
The first two in the west would be Sonderkommando Sommer and Sonderkommando Götz, in Italy Sonderkommando Hecht and with three being sent to the eastern front. Initially these Sonderkommando would initially only operate between two to three Ar-234B1 and would be many months before they would be operating at full strength of 12 Ar-234B1’s.
Even with these limited numbers these Sonderkommando would bring back information on allied troop movements that other reconnaissance would have been shot down trying to obtain.
The reconnaissance jets information would allow the German military commanders the ability to concentrate their limited military strength to counter any major attacks against the new front lines from August 1944 onwards. This would also nullify most attempts by allied intelligence to deceive the Germans, as the Germans would use the Jet reconnaissance Ar-234 to verify the information.
Unlike either the bomber or fighter, the reconnaissance Ar-234 were having a much bigger impact on events during mid 1944, but as 1944 wore on the bomber and fighter versions would start have a bigger impact as more jets were produced and sent to front line units.
KG 76
By the end of June, the 9th staffel III group of the Kampfgeschwader 76 (KG 76) had sixteen Ar-234B-2’s operational the other two staffel’s (10th and 11th) of the III group were still forming.
On the 30th June 1944 the 9th staffel of the III group of the Kampfgeschwader 76 was declared full operational and ordered to commence operations against allied targets in Normandy this was easier said than done! As trying to transfer the KG 76 9th staffel to France and support it was considered impossible, so operations would be conducted from Belgium instead.
Operating from Belgium the KG 76 9th staffel would be limited to targets within the British landing areas, as going further west would tax the Ar-234B2’s range to the limit. Even with Rocket Assisted Takeoff (RATO) to help get the bombers into the air it was not going to be easy, as missions for this single staffel during July would prove that the small number of Ar-234B2 bombers would make little impact on the battle for Normandy.
The main problem for the KG76 was the lack of aircraft the Ar-234B2’s were coming of the production line at a very slow rate, as priority was been given to the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version throughout June, the reconnaissance version was seen as more important by certain individuals in the German Air Force than the bomber version.
Eastern Front
On the Eastern front the first few Ar-234B1’s operations would convince Hitler that the “hold until the last” order was the wrong strategy and Hitler would grudgingly allow his front line commanders a more flexible defensive approach against the oncoming Soviet Operation Bagration that would kick off on the 22nd June 1944.
This action by Hitler would save both Army Groups North and Centre, from being cut off and annihilated respectively.
Eastern Front, 22nd June to the 31st August 1944
Operation Bagration was intended as a general attack by Soviet forces to clear the German forces from Belarus, but instead it was turned into an attack to try and cut of the escape of Army Group North, by capturing Riga. This act by Stalin moved troops from attacking Army Group Centre to attack towards Riga, would loose Stalin this initiative for the rest of 1944 and early 1945.
By the time the modified Operation Bagration comes to an end in late August 1944, all of Army Group North had managed to escape the encirclement by the Red Army. A new and much shorter front line has formed, running from Riga in the North along the River Dvina down to Polotsk, then turning sout towards Orsha down to Moglive, after that the front line remains unchanged.
Stalin can look to having retaken a large track of land, but the annihilation of Army Group Centre that he was hoping for has not happen as Stalin shifted towards tiring to cut of Army Group North and failed.
In the aftermath of Operation Bagration the German Army remains intact along a much shorter front line (especially Army Group North), this will allow the German Army to cover the new and much shorter front line than the over extended one the had at the beginning of the 22nd June.
Both sides see this operation as a victory.
In July, Hitler will use the information from the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version to prevent the German Army being cut off around the town of Falaise in France this will allow the German Army to make a staged and coordinated withdrawal to the River Seine, during the withdrawal the Germany Army with leave a trail of destruction behind them, including blowing every bridge and as much of Frances infrastructure as possible, this will result in slowing the allied armies to a crawl. This will be achieved by late August early September 1944.
The Jet in its two main forms was now entering full production in the Me-262 and the Ar-234 in the reconnaissance was also coming of the production lines, but the bomber version of the Ar-234 was still only coming of the production lines in limited numbers, as priority had been given to the reconnaissance version, even though Hitler had wanted more Jet bombers, but even Hitler could see that advantages of more jet reconnaissance aircraft over more bombers being produced in the short term.
Some of Hitler’s views on the use of these new Jets were now changing, the main one being that information received via jet reconnaissance aircraft was trusted more than any other source by Hitler, as he could see the evidence with his own eye’s that his Generals were telling him, this would make it much more easier to get Hitler to rescind or not even give his infirmness “hold at all costs” order.
Even so there were those in the German military that were plotting to kill Hitler.
Me-262 Kills and Losses June 1944
The Me-262 units have by the end of June 1944 shot down 94 allied aircraft (again mostly reconnaissance aircraft, but also a growing number of bombers), for 9 combat losses (six pilots killed), but losses due accidents and technical failures stands at 51, with 25 jets written off killing 26 pilots. The remaining 26 damaged jets will be repaired and re-enter operational service over the next 4 to 8 weeks depending on the level of damage sustained.
All the combat losses would come from EKO 262.
Kommando Nowotny was now about to enter the fray, but unlike Kommando Schreiber, Kommando Nowotny limited six weeks or so of combat operations would not be very successful, due to the lack of proper training of most of Kommando Nowotny pilots.
For the month of June losses exceeded production, it would be a while before production could meet demands.
To be continued.
Thanks.
3.
This is one of the parts were I have had to “modify” the battles in OTL to allow this TL go well into 1945.
June 1944
Me-262 Deliverers for June 1944
Total deliveries of the Me-262A1a’s for June is 28 from the Augsburg production facility, the bulk of these Me-262A1a’s would be destined for Kommando Nowotny forming at Achmer and Hesepe and some going to replace the operational losses by EKO 262 due to accidents.
In early June, it was also decided that a two seat version would be urgently needed (a slightly obvious course of action that should have been done in 1943), production of this two seat version would come from Regensburg, which was in the process of restarting production with the first version of the Me-262B1a would come of the Regensburg production line in September 1944, several damaged Me-262A1a would also be converted to Me-262B1a from September onwards.
Production of the Me-262A0 has now ceased.
Invasion, June 1944 - D-Day
On the 6th June 1944, Operation Overlord would commence the operation was the largest single-day amphibious invasion of all time, with over 130,000 troops landed. 195,700 Allied naval and merchant navy personnel were involved. The landings took place along a stretch of the Normandy coast divided into five sectors Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and Sword.
First Actions
The first unit into action against Normandy was not a Jet unit, but a piston engine unit from the Jagdgeschwader 26’s was the first unit to commence operations during the Normandy invasion on the 6th June 1944 was conducted by Geschwaderkommodore Obstlt Josef Priller, flying an Fw-190A8 Black 13, and his wingman from his base at Lille-Nord, this event along with the first Me-262 action would be portrayed graphically in the book by Cornelius Ryan and the resultant film The Longest Day, along with the first Me-262 operation later that day.
Priller and his wingman Uffz Heinz Wodarczyk took off in their Focke-Wulfs and headed west at low altitude, dodging several formations of Spitfires in the process. Crossing the coast at Le Havre the duo spotted the ships of the assault force. The pair made a high speed-strafing pass over what was the British Sword Beach. Anti-aircraft fire forced the unscathed Focke-Wulfs to seek cloud cover.
The first jet fighters did not get into the air until mid morning these would come from Schreiber’s small unit of eight Jets.
Kommando Schreiber
For the first few days of June (1st to 5th), Kommando Schreiber had very little activity, as the bad weather for the first five days of June limited operations for Schreiber’s command. Schreiber used this time to increase theoretical training for his pilots and practical training for his ground crews, his ground crews would put these five days of limited activity to intensify there understanding of the Me-262.
Most of the first five days of June, when there was a break in the weather was used for flight training and the occasional interception of enemy reconnaissance aircraft. This lack of activity leads to only three kills during the first five days of June, two of these kill’s going to Schreiber.
With the news of the invasion, Kommando Schreiber immediately began to prepare for operations against the allied fighters and bombers, but the task faced by the pilots of Kommando Schreiber was daunting to put it mildly, they were so out numbered and the odds against them so high, it was figured that Kommando Schreiber would cease to exist within a few days at the most by Goring, this conclusion by Goring was wrong, as Kommando Schreiber was going to use different tactics against the massive amounts of allied aircraft arranged against them.
Kommando Schreiber was using the stalk-and-ambush tactics (also use successfully by Erich Hartmann and many others on the Eastern Front), by using this tactic it was estimated by Schreiber that 80% of the allied aircraft his Kommando downed did not even realize what hit them. He and his pilots relied on the powerful speed of his Me-262 for high-power sweeps and quick approaches, occasionally diving through entire enemy formations to take advantage of the confusion that followed in order to disengage.
This technique, as opposed to long-range shooting (not much use with the MK-108 cannons), allowed him to:
1. Reveal his position only at the last possible moment
2. Compensate for the low muzzle velocity of the slower firing 30 mm MK 108 by opening fire at the shortest possible range
3. Placing shots accurately with minimum waste of ammunition
4. Prevent the adversary from taking evasive actions
Not all of the pilots assigned to Kommando Schreiber would subscribe to these combat tactics, but those who did always managed to gain a kill when encountering allied aircraft.
The first operation on the 6th June would be a combat patrol over the Normandy landing area, by the time both planes were ready it was midday on the 6th June, two of the units jets had been lined up for takeoff, in one of the Jets was Schreiber, there mission would be to patrol over the Normandy area and engage any enemy aircraft encountered. To assist in takeoff Schreiber’s jet had been fitted with rockets, which not only got them into the air quicker, but also shortened the takeoff run.
After an uneventful and very quick takeoff, Schreiber and his wingman would steadily climbing to 30,000 feet (the opposite of Priller and his wingman’s approach), while heading towards the Normandy battle area, it was not long before they both spotted a large formation of B-26 bombers that appeared to be coming back from a mission over France. As they were both in a favourable position to attack, as both Me-262’s passing through the formation of B-26’s and opening fire with there four MK108 cannons, there is the distinctive noise of the four MK108 firing, the MK 108 30mm cannon had already earned a fearsome reputation among Allied bomber crews, who named it the “pneumatic hammer” due to its distinctive firing sound.
Once both jets had very quickly passed through the B-26 formation, during the pass Schreiber had downed two B-26 bombers and his wingman downed one. With fuel now running low both returned to base, without further incident, during the mission and the attack against the B-26 formation neither aircraft were intercepted by allied escort fighters or even received any battle damage, such was the speed of the attack the B-26 formation did not know what hit them. By the time the escort fighters realised the bombers were under attack, the two jets were already on there way home, it was a while before the allied fighter pilots realised that the attacking Germans had gone!
For the remained of the 6th June, the pilots of Kommando Schreiber would fly another eight missions and account for a total of nine enemy aircraft downed without loss, by rotating through the eight available jets on the 6th June Schreiber was able to keep all eight jets operational on the first day of the invasion of France, this was only possible because of the lack of activity during the first five days of June.
But, as the month of June went by the operational level of Kommando Schreiber Me-262’s unit would go down dramatically, due to the lack of spare parts arriving, to fix the broken aircraft, by the end of June Kommando Schreiber was only able to put two jets into the air and even then limiting to a maximum of two missions per day, as the other remaining six jets would be unavailable for operations, due to mechanical problems.
This severely limited the number of kills the unit could achieve in late June and early July, the total number of kills achieved by Kommando Schreiber by the end of June stood at twenty-one for no combat losses.
Even though the allies were aware of German Jets operating against them over Normandy, allied reconnaissance did not discover the location of the base of operations in France. This was due to the secrecy surrounding both Kommando Schreiber and the two Ar-234 prototypes flown by Sommer and Götz from the Juvincourt site, also all the jets operating from Juvincourt were heavily camouflaged from enemy reconnaissance aircraft.
As June wore on the lack of available aircraft for Kommando Schreiber, leading to limited operations, including several days were no combat operations would take place this also ensured that both Jet units operating from Juvincourt not being discovered by the allies, due to the lack of activity from Juvincourt. In addition the commencement of the V1 attacks on London was now receiving the full attention of the allied airpower.
Ar-234
The two Ar-234 prototypes flown by Sommer and Götz are able to fly daily reconnaissance missions over Normandy without be intercepted or even discovered, these two jets would bring back a wealth of intelligence information on the allied military build-up and possible lines of attack by the allied forces against the German Army.
Both the Ar-234 prototypes would remain operational throughout June, as reconnaissance work, was less demanding on the engines than fighter work, thus allowing the two Ar-234 prototypes to fly daily operations. By the end of June the information that had been provided by these two Ar-234 prototypes, was extremely impressive. Hitler ordered in early June that two reconnaissance squadrons be set-up for use in France and three for the Eastern Front and one for the Southern front.
The new reconnaissance squadrons would be equipped with the Ar-234B1, which would have a retractable undercarriage this would make takeoffs and landing much easier for these new reconnaissance squadrons, than the jettisonable trolley that Sommer and Götz had been using with the two prototypes Ar-234’s.
The first of the new reconnaissance squadrons operating the Ar-234B1 would be sent to the Eastern Front from the 15th June onwards they would play a significant role in changing Hitler’s mind about not allowing the German Army a more flexible approach to engaging the Soviet Armies.
The deployment of the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version first would come at the cost of bringing the Ar-234B2 bomber version into service it would not be until the end of June 1944 that the first staffel (squadron) of 12 Ar-234B2 bombers would become operational.
The first two in the west would be Sonderkommando Sommer and Sonderkommando Götz, in Italy Sonderkommando Hecht and with three being sent to the eastern front. Initially these Sonderkommando would initially only operate between two to three Ar-234B1 and would be many months before they would be operating at full strength of 12 Ar-234B1’s.
Even with these limited numbers these Sonderkommando would bring back information on allied troop movements that other reconnaissance would have been shot down trying to obtain.
The reconnaissance jets information would allow the German military commanders the ability to concentrate their limited military strength to counter any major attacks against the new front lines from August 1944 onwards. This would also nullify most attempts by allied intelligence to deceive the Germans, as the Germans would use the Jet reconnaissance Ar-234 to verify the information.
Unlike either the bomber or fighter, the reconnaissance Ar-234 were having a much bigger impact on events during mid 1944, but as 1944 wore on the bomber and fighter versions would start have a bigger impact as more jets were produced and sent to front line units.
KG 76
By the end of June, the 9th staffel III group of the Kampfgeschwader 76 (KG 76) had sixteen Ar-234B-2’s operational the other two staffel’s (10th and 11th) of the III group were still forming.
On the 30th June 1944 the 9th staffel of the III group of the Kampfgeschwader 76 was declared full operational and ordered to commence operations against allied targets in Normandy this was easier said than done! As trying to transfer the KG 76 9th staffel to France and support it was considered impossible, so operations would be conducted from Belgium instead.
Operating from Belgium the KG 76 9th staffel would be limited to targets within the British landing areas, as going further west would tax the Ar-234B2’s range to the limit. Even with Rocket Assisted Takeoff (RATO) to help get the bombers into the air it was not going to be easy, as missions for this single staffel during July would prove that the small number of Ar-234B2 bombers would make little impact on the battle for Normandy.
The main problem for the KG76 was the lack of aircraft the Ar-234B2’s were coming of the production line at a very slow rate, as priority was been given to the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version throughout June, the reconnaissance version was seen as more important by certain individuals in the German Air Force than the bomber version.
Eastern Front
On the Eastern front the first few Ar-234B1’s operations would convince Hitler that the “hold until the last” order was the wrong strategy and Hitler would grudgingly allow his front line commanders a more flexible defensive approach against the oncoming Soviet Operation Bagration that would kick off on the 22nd June 1944.
This action by Hitler would save both Army Groups North and Centre, from being cut off and annihilated respectively.
Eastern Front, 22nd June to the 31st August 1944
Operation Bagration was intended as a general attack by Soviet forces to clear the German forces from Belarus, but instead it was turned into an attack to try and cut of the escape of Army Group North, by capturing Riga. This act by Stalin moved troops from attacking Army Group Centre to attack towards Riga, would loose Stalin this initiative for the rest of 1944 and early 1945.
By the time the modified Operation Bagration comes to an end in late August 1944, all of Army Group North had managed to escape the encirclement by the Red Army. A new and much shorter front line has formed, running from Riga in the North along the River Dvina down to Polotsk, then turning sout towards Orsha down to Moglive, after that the front line remains unchanged.
Stalin can look to having retaken a large track of land, but the annihilation of Army Group Centre that he was hoping for has not happen as Stalin shifted towards tiring to cut of Army Group North and failed.
In the aftermath of Operation Bagration the German Army remains intact along a much shorter front line (especially Army Group North), this will allow the German Army to cover the new and much shorter front line than the over extended one the had at the beginning of the 22nd June.
Both sides see this operation as a victory.
In July, Hitler will use the information from the Ar-234B1 reconnaissance version to prevent the German Army being cut off around the town of Falaise in France this will allow the German Army to make a staged and coordinated withdrawal to the River Seine, during the withdrawal the Germany Army with leave a trail of destruction behind them, including blowing every bridge and as much of Frances infrastructure as possible, this will result in slowing the allied armies to a crawl. This will be achieved by late August early September 1944.
The Jet in its two main forms was now entering full production in the Me-262 and the Ar-234 in the reconnaissance was also coming of the production lines, but the bomber version of the Ar-234 was still only coming of the production lines in limited numbers, as priority had been given to the reconnaissance version, even though Hitler had wanted more Jet bombers, but even Hitler could see that advantages of more jet reconnaissance aircraft over more bombers being produced in the short term.
Some of Hitler’s views on the use of these new Jets were now changing, the main one being that information received via jet reconnaissance aircraft was trusted more than any other source by Hitler, as he could see the evidence with his own eye’s that his Generals were telling him, this would make it much more easier to get Hitler to rescind or not even give his infirmness “hold at all costs” order.
Even so there were those in the German military that were plotting to kill Hitler.
Me-262 Kills and Losses June 1944
The Me-262 units have by the end of June 1944 shot down 94 allied aircraft (again mostly reconnaissance aircraft, but also a growing number of bombers), for 9 combat losses (six pilots killed), but losses due accidents and technical failures stands at 51, with 25 jets written off killing 26 pilots. The remaining 26 damaged jets will be repaired and re-enter operational service over the next 4 to 8 weeks depending on the level of damage sustained.
All the combat losses would come from EKO 262.
Kommando Nowotny was now about to enter the fray, but unlike Kommando Schreiber, Kommando Nowotny limited six weeks or so of combat operations would not be very successful, due to the lack of proper training of most of Kommando Nowotny pilots.
For the month of June losses exceeded production, it would be a while before production could meet demands.
To be continued.
Riain
Banned
I've always thought that gouging out the combined bomber offensive's eyes would be a good use of the jet and rocket planes, if successful it could cramp bombing operations through lack of recon info. Perhaps another use of Ar234 bombers could be to take out the GEE, OBOE and LORAN stations in Britain to make the pathfinder Mosquito missions more difficult.
Ar234s could have been intercepted by Meteor MkIIIs over the UK from late '44 in OTL.
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Riain
Banned
That's a big jump when the definitive F3 with 2400lb engines didn't appear until after the war ended. The PoD to me appears to be quite late in the war, which probably doesn't give the British enough time to use their potential to get ahead of the Germans. I think that by late 1945 in this scenario the Brits should gain the upper hand, but not in 1944.
It's the F4 that entered service after the war, the F3s went into service replacing the F1s of 616 Sqn in December '44. Anyway even F1s flew higher than the Ar234.
Most histories agree that the lack of metals technology in the engined stopped earlier development of the Me-262 and post war tests with proper strategic metals resulted in 500 hours bench tests and estimated 150 hours combat service.
http://www.enginehistory.org/German/Me-262/Me262_Engine_2.pdf
Going on this site....
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/technical/technical_3.htm
Going on steel mass the reduction of about 75 x Type VII UBoats would leave enough steel that through mass production could genetrate ~75,000 Jumo 004A engines from 1942 through 1945. With 200 hours service life [especially with the fuel dump control mechanism of the Jumo 004C] that allows something like following engines/years
~ 2700 1942 [ 1,350 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 5500 1943 [ 2,700 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 11,000 1944 [ 5,500 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 22,000 1945 [ 11,000 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
If at this point the single engined Ta 183 is introduced , then 1/2 the engines could allow upwards of 11,000 Ta-183 & 5500 Me-262/Ar 234 to be sustained.
Agree with Me-262 for interceptor roles and Ar-234 for recon. Leave bombing to multi engined , multi crewed bombers firing ASMs...but thats another story
http://www.enginehistory.org/German/Me-262/Me262_Engine_2.pdf
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4648&page=2
Going on this site....
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/technical/technical_3.htm
Going on steel mass the reduction of about 75 x Type VII UBoats would leave enough steel that through mass production could genetrate ~75,000 Jumo 004A engines from 1942 through 1945. With 200 hours service life [especially with the fuel dump control mechanism of the Jumo 004C] that allows something like following engines/years
~ 2700 1942 [ 1,350 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 5500 1943 [ 2,700 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 11,000 1944 [ 5,500 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
~ 22,000 1945 [ 11,000 twin engined Me-262/Ar 234]
If at this point the single engined Ta 183 is introduced , then 1/2 the engines could allow upwards of 11,000 Ta-183 & 5500 Me-262/Ar 234 to be sustained.
Agree with Me-262 for interceptor roles and Ar-234 for recon. Leave bombing to multi engined , multi crewed bombers firing ASMs...but thats another story
Okay just a couple of small issues with this
... 1) it was not just any steel that was needed. I am not an expert but my understanding is that the steel used in ship construction is only somewhat usable for high temperature uses like say the interior of a jet engine. That takes special additives - it was these additives that were in short supply. Not building UBoats does not change that part of the equation. It does let them build more low hours Jumos but not the high hours ones you mention above.
2) Where would they get the pilots for these aircraft? And the production capability to build the airframes? The ME-262 was more complex to produce than the mainstay ME-109 (~1/3 of all aircraft production in these years was ME-109) and the AR-234 was no easier to produce than the other twin engine bomber models (Less than 3000 total produced in 1944).
Yes they might be able to produce the engines, maybe these engines can beat the 10 hour lifespan that the OTL Jumos had. But I doubt they can produce that volume of airframes.
Now maybe they can produce 1/3 of the airframes you speculate above, with the volume of engines from above at a 50-60 hour between overhaul lifespan. That give the Germans a much better set of aircraft...which is about where I think this TL is going
Okay just a couple of small issues with this
1) it was not just any steel that was needed. I am not an expert but my understanding is that the steel used in ship construction is only somewhat usable for high temperature uses like say the interior of a jet engine. That takes special additives - it was these additives that were in short supply. Not building UBoats does not change that part of the equation. It does let them build more low hours Jumos but not the high hours ones you mention above.
2) Where would they get the pilots for these aircraft? And the production capability to build the airframes? The ME-262 was more complex to produce than the mainstay ME-109 (~1/3 of all aircraft production in these years was ME-109) and the AR-234 was no easier to produce than the other twin engine bomber models (Less than 3000 total produced in 1944).
Yes they might be able to produce the engines, maybe these engines can beat the 10 hour lifespan that the OTL Jumos had. But I doubt they can produce that volume of airframes.
Now maybe they can produce 1/3 of the airframes you speculate above, with the volume of engines from above at a 50-60 hour between overhaul lifespan. That give the Germans a much better set of aircraft...which is about where I think this TL is going
All the sources indicate the special hull construction of UBoats required the bulk of the special metals construction and this is given as the reason their could not manufacture the high quality steel for these engines.
As to airframe manufacturing to understand how , you need to understand the impact of multi year fixed price contracts and narrowing the field on numbers of planes in production. Once you do , you would know that its no were as difficult as your suggesting. So the previous post is still valid.
This production would be instead of existing fighter production like Me-109 which required 4300 man hours to mass produce compared to 3400 man hours for Me-262 to mass produce.
whatisinaname
Donor
Hi tchizek
Yes I have always thought that jet recon would have had more impact.
Thanks for your support
Whatisinaname
whatisinaname
Donor
Hi Riain
Allied recon over Germany will suffer, as a result Germany will not recicve critical damage from allied bomber raids, as the allied recon planes are unable to provide the targets for the bombers.
Mosquito will be having problems from the night fighter Me-262 version, but that is coming in future parts
Thanks for your support and comments
Whatisinaname
whatisinaname
Donor
Hi The Dean
Yes the Meteor Mark 3 will start to enter service in December 44, but the first combat won't happen until Feb, for one very good reason, the weather!
Thanks your support and comments
Whatisinaname
Riain
Banned
There were 210 Meteor F3s built in total, the final one built in 1947, the last 15 had the extended engine nacelles to allow the mach limitation of 0.8. These nacelles were retrofitted on earlier F3s after this date. The early F3s were fitted with 2000lb thrust Derwent Is, later they were fitted with 2200lb Derwent IIs and 2400lb Derwent IVs. Of the F3 variants I think only the Derwent IV, long nacelle would be able to catch the Ar234 in a straight up interception and tangle with the Me262 in a straight up dogfight.
By the time the F4 came along the Meteor had clipped wingtips, long engine nacelles and Derwent Vs which were more akin to Nenes than the original Derwents. This variant would leave the 262 for dead with about 50mph more speed and almost double the thrust for climb performance. But it wasn't due for some time without a serious push.
By the time the F4 came along the Meteor had clipped wingtips, long engine nacelles and Derwent Vs which were more akin to Nenes than the original Derwents. This variant would leave the 262 for dead with about 50mph more speed and almost double the thrust for climb performance. But it wasn't due for some time without a serious push.
whatisinaname
Donor
Hi Riain
In this TL there will be more F3s built, I agree, I think that trying for the F4 would be steaching things a bit far for the TL.
Thanks for the support and comments
Whatisinaname
Here is part 3, comments and support welcomed
Thanks.
It's a very orginal idea. I like it very much.
But would't Russians make a lot of dummy tanks, trucks, and artillery to deceive German reconnaissance(IIRC this should be standard Red Army practice)? Your ATL outcome of Operation Bagration might be too optimistic for German.