Several generations of a single surviving son at the least.Is there any possible way to keep the Frankish Empire united?
Thanks!BiteNibbleChomp has a good idea.
The only issue I see here is the fact that it got divided and reunited several times during the Merovingian period, and also during the reign of Charles the Fat. None of those cases came close to breaking the tradition, mostly because it was a tradition and going against it would be going against centuries of history. The only reason I think Pippin would be able to get away with it is because the combination of his being of a new dynasty, everything his father did, and the Pope, is probably enough to overturn this. No Merovingian King was able to come close to this, nor would Charlemagne (because his father has already confirmed the Karlings will obey the old customs)Also, you could have a generation or two where the empire was split among sons and each time one part conquers the other(s). Get the tradition going that splitting is just a waste of time, money and blood, 'cause it's going to be reunified anyway.
Probably not, safe successive stroke of lucks in succession, with only one surviving son at the inheritence, and even that wouldn't help.Is there any possible way to keep the Frankish Empire united?
We have the same problem that with "just have Louis's sons being loyal to him". It's handwaving why his sons could afford to not be loyal, or which social-political forces and networks supported them and would support dissenssion.Or just have Ludwig the German have his sons loyal to him. He nearly took Lothringia, Barvaria, and Italy from his siblings and their vassals wouldn't raise a sword against him, forcing them to rely on their persona levy.
This wouldn't really be faisible, ekcept an earlier death for Karloman : as pointed above, the settlement of frankish polities inkluded a certain ammount of share of royal titles.The only situation after Clovis that doesn't require an insane amount of luck is having Pippin III declare only himself and Karl (future Charlemagne) kings, while ignoring his other son Karloman, in 751, as part of that letter to the pope that got him the crown in the first place.
Thing is, it's what happened in Late Carolingian period : you had regular takeovers, imperial claims, imperial proclamations, etc. Never, at any point, it ended by the idea that "well, why do we keep trying to get Italy/Lotharingia/Burgundy back? It's a waste of time".Also, you could have a generation or two where the empire was split among sons and each time one part conquers the other(s). Get the tradition going that splitting is just a waste of time, money and blood, 'cause it's going to be reunified anyway.
When the letter was done, Karloman wasn't born yet (he was born c. 3 months later). Pippin can simply say 'screw him' when he does come along, and as he already has the letter that says "Pippin and Karl shall be kings", he can point out that Karloman won't be a king. Since it has the Pope's agreement, any nobles that do challenge it risk challenging the word of God (or at least the people of the time would see it that way).This wouldn't really be faisible, ekcept an earlier death for Karloman : as pointed above, the settlement of frankish polities inkluded a certain ammount of share of royal titles.
It's overtranslation from French to English.(Also, why does that post have so many spelling errors? Every 5th word it seems has a k instead of c)
When the letter was done, Karloman wasn't born yet (he was born c. 3 months later). Pippin can simply say 'screw him' when he does come along, and as he already has the letter that says "Pippin and Karl shall be kings", he can point out that Karloman won't be a king. Since it has the Pope's agreement, any nobles that do challenge it risk challenging the word of God (or at least the people of the time would see it that way).
Just a friendly nod to your tendency to overgermanize names a bit, that's all(Also, why does that post have so many spelling errors? Every 5th word it seems has a k instead of c)
Bruno Dumézil said:A fragile empire indeed
The 25th December of the year 800, Charlemagne recieved the imperial crown in Rome. It's a personal victory for the old king. He conquered an importantpart of former imperial provinces, build-up a state, submitted populations to his law, protected, defended and extended Christianity. His entourage think that he have the right to restaure the imperial title, not really Augustus' one, but rather Constantine's.
A Christian Empire is reborn then in the West in the year 800. One fly in the oinment, the pope Leo III tried to save the appearances for a declining papacy by taking on himself to crown the new emperor. But, for no, nobody worries. In Aachen's palace, the throne is in the first stair in tribunes, just beyond the figuration of God, in the same level than clergy, and way on top of lays in the nave. Charlemagne, sole intercessor between God and men, holds a theocratic power.
Still, Charlemagne continues to stye himself "King of Franks and Lombards". The imperial title is, eventually, only a trinket to add to the crown of a strong state.
A strong state, that this Frankish state? That much can be doubted.
On its borders, new peoples were attracred as soon as 800 by carolingian wealth. And inside the Frankish world, aristocracy an high clergy are only held by the power and prestige of Charles the Great. It would be enough to have the emperor dying...
Which happens, the 24 January of the year 814.
It would be wrong to say that the imperial edifice is wavering, because the empire didn't really existed as such in 814. It's, at the contrary, because the emperor is dead and that the lands are threatened by invasions that Charles' successorsare forced to give shape to the Empire, to allow this so vast structure to perpetuate itself.
Carolingians are, however, facing a perfect storm, coming as well from their surrounding than their own dynasty. Charles' successors, Louis the Pious, tries to face the rise of threats, vainly : to the division of the Empire, will be added its disappearence in the late 880's