Can Britain and France lure Germany to fight the Soviet Union?

If Britain and France decided they want to avoid war and the easiest way to do it is to get Germany and the Soviet Union to fight, is this possible?

If they gave no assurance to Poland and instead drew a line in the West while telling Germany they won’t interfere with any war with Russia, what would Hitler do? Would he risk having his flank exposed? Or would he go for Germany? And does Poland give in to German or Russia demands here, or try to fight Germany alone? Is a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact possible here?
 
If Britain and France decided they want to avoid war and the easiest way to do it is to get Germany and the Soviet Union to fight, is this possible?

If they gave no assurance to Poland and instead drew a line in the West while telling Germany they won’t interfere with any war with Russia, what would Hitler do? Would he risk having his flank exposed? Or would he go for Germany? And does Poland give in to German or Russia demands here, or try to fight Germany alone? Is a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact possible here?
I think Britain and France not supporting Poland is a poor reflection of them diplomatically, because they are condoning aggression contrary to their mission in the League of Nations. Hitler still probably invades Belgium and France anyway, because he wanted to avenge Germany's loss during World War I. France was also in an alliance with the USSR from 1936-39, so he couldn't take any risks of them reconciling. Although some say Hitler did not want war against Britain and Britain did not like either Nazi Germany or the USSR, Britain did not want one nation dominating Europe, so it would be hard for them not to get involved (at least on France's side).
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
Hitler wouldn't trust their assurance. He specifically wrote in Mein Kampf that France must be destroyed before the Soviet Union in order to prevent France from opening up a second front.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
If Britain and France decided they want to avoid war and the easiest way to do it is to get Germany and the Soviet Union to fight, is this possible?

If they gave no assurance to Poland and instead drew a line in the West while telling Germany they won’t interfere with any war with Russia, what would Hitler do? Would he risk having his flank exposed? Or would he go for Germany? And does Poland give in to German or Russia demands here, or try to fight Germany alone? Is a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact possible here?
When ?
At which point in time would the wallies make their "offer" ?
Lil' recall of events of OTL:
  • 29.09.1938
    • Munich Agreement
  • Octobre/Novembre 1938
    • Germany begins ti initiate the negotiations for the later German-Soviet-Credit Agreement of 19th August 1939
  • 09.03.1939
    • czechian troops occupy autonomous Slovakia
  • 14.03.1939
    • slovakain declaration of independence (admitted under some ... pressure)
  • 15.03.1939
    • Annexation/"peace-and-freedom" enforcing of "rump"-Czechia after the solution of Czechoslowakia due to the slovakian Declaration of Independence (... looks a wee bit like the US interventions in the middle americas and the caribs ...)
In essence : the germans did not violated the terms of the Munich Agreement ... it's only everywhere interpreted as such.
Nevertheless it violated its "meaning" as understood and hoped for - at least for some ... more time - by Chamberlain.
  • 10.03.1939
    • "Chestnut"-speach of Stalin (The Ussr will NOT fetch the chestnuts out of the fire for the capitalistic powers of France and Britain
  • 22.03.1939
    • german occupation of the Memel-territory after an ultimatum to the lithunian goverment 2 days before. (Should be noted, that the Memel parlioament had a 87% pro-german majority after its election in Dec.1938 and it was expected, that they would vote for an "Anschluss" on Germany.)
  • 31.03.1939
    • franco-british declaration of guarantee for Poland and its independence (NOT its territorial borders as they were)
  • rather dilatory negotiations of the wallis with the Soviets, even more hampered after the change from Litvinov to Molotov on 3rd May 1939
  • June 1939
    • begin of more "substantial" german-soviet talks about an also overall political agreement (aside the already well on their way being economical negotiations)
  • 11.08.1939
    • only now begin of negotiations betwenn militarys of France and Britain with soviet counterparts, now from the latters side rather dilatorial conducted
  • 19.08.1939
    • German-Soviet-Credit Agreement (or trade agreement for raw materials for germany) signed
  • 23./24.08.1939
    • Molotov-Ribbentrop-Pact signed
And actually when and where would you want to insert your "offer" ?
 

NoMommsen

Donor
However, even if the Wallies might at whatever point after the Munich agreement make their "offer", it would by default include whatever german schemes on Poland might be, actually throwing Poland under the bus. ... as the "asked for" war with the Soviets would need the polish territory as its starting point / concentration space for the german armies.

The German-Soviet-Credit Agreement is also a given due to economical necessity for Germany ... or would the wallis put some "icing" on the cake with some formidable trade-offers/material 'gifts' also ?
In return :
the Molotov-Ribbentrop-Pact was an "icing" on the cake of the German-Soviet-Credit Agreement.
And therefore - IMHO - would also happen ITTL (maybe not if the Brits actually 'pay' the germans in raw/mterial kind at least).


And Hitler ... would be happy to take everything from everyone.
He would (have to) 'crush' Poland anyway for getting his troops to the soviet borders.
... now only with Londons as well as Moscows blessings.
He would feel very much confirmed in his believe that the brits actually want to side with him as their 'germanic brother'.
He would nevertheless boost with the by whoever 'gifted' raw materials his 'defense' against the treacherous/not to be trusted french.

He might start after Poland is crushed some kind of ... border conflict or whatsoever with France to
first
test how much he can 'really' rely on the 'new' brotherhood wirth Britain
second
get his back cleared for the "real" fight with the Soviets​

... Not to forget, that he will still have a finish-soviet Winter-War.
 
what is the recipe for UK to support (or not work against) Nazi regime? about 2/3s a suddenly more aggressive USSR and 1/3 unexpected daylight between themselves and France?

the historical M-R Pact was viewed as cynical ploy, expected to end with betrayal, sooner rather than later? possibly an earlier pact between Germany and USSR resuming the pre-Nazi era trade would look more threatening? (that they would, could have a duopoly over the Continent)
 

hammo1j

Donor
what is the recipe for UK to support (or not work against) Nazi regime? about 2/3s a suddenly more aggressive USSR and 1/3 unexpected daylight between themselves and France?

Stalin was not a world communist and did not interfere with other nations to spread it.

What if someone more proselytizing was in place in the SU? To avoid an early POD Stalin should die and be replaced with someone who would stir up insurrection in the 'Imperialist' British Empire, India, say.

Was there such a high ranking communist?
 
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