Can Allied Italy get territory from Axis Vichy France?

Alright, let's say Italy is much better behaved. Italy stays out of Ethiopia, accepts France and Britain's offer of colonies and shares in Suez in exchange for neutrality in 1940, and Italy honors the agreement even when France falls. Italy stays out of Greece and at most gets Albania and a border adjustment (big or small) with Yugoslavia during the war. Vichy France joins the Axis for some reason at some point. Things otherwise play out fairly similar with the US, Britain, Germany, USSR, and Japan.

If Italy offered to join the Allies, would the allies be willing to allow Italy to take any territory from France proper? If not, what conditions would be required for the Allies to consider it? Is so, how much would realistically be offered or accepted by the Allies if taken?
 
The key factor is timing, the more time pass and the results it's clear and less bargain power Italy has; even in that case i expect that Free France will make hell to block any of this proposal and frankly even the rest of the Allies will not be very happy...still if the proposal is reasonable and the allies desperate enough they will greatly consider the proposal as an allied Italy mean having the entire south German front exposed to attack, plus bases that can be used directely against the German territory.

I'm still convinced that is more probable that Benny will be given the blessing to do to Jugoslavia whatever he wanted and keep Austria in his sphere of influence; IMVHO at most he get what obtained on OTL peace treaty with France in 1940
 
For Ethiopia, part of it was that the British and French did offer territory, it they renounced it when it when it leaked out. Also, the Italians still rather wanted the Aozou Strip that had previously been offered to them, but that the French never ratified the treaty for. And if there is no Italian invasion of Ethiopia, then the Italians would stay in the Baelerics, wouldn't they? And who knows. Maybe if the French offered Hatay to the Italy instead of Turkey they would jump for joy. Antioch did hold a lot of worth in the times of the Crusades, though of course it would piss off the Turks and bringing Italian influence into the area. Ethiopia is pretty much the only option for Italian expansion outside of Europe. Well, maybe northern Yemen?
 
For Ethiopia, part of it was that the British and French did offer territory, it they renounced it when it when it leaked out.
Also, the Italians still rather wanted the Aozou Strip that had previously been offered to them, but that the French never ratified the treaty for.

ISTR it was the other way around. The British disavowed the treaty, but France didn't. Only for Mussolini not having it ratified because it was too small an offer.

And if there is no Italian invasion of Ethiopia, then the Italians would stay in the Baelerics, wouldn't they?

I would have thought that to be a precondition for peace with Spain, especially it repaying the war debts. Perhaps you know more details?

And who knows. Maybe if the French offered Hatay to the Italy instead of Turkey they would jump for joy. Antioch did hold a lot of worth in the times of the Crusades, though of course it would piss off the Turks and bringing Italian influence into the area. Ethiopia is pretty much the only option for Italian expansion outside of Europe. Well, maybe northern Yemen?

All that stuff looks pretty much useless to me. Still in the realm of possible. Unless there was a substantial contribution to the war, I seriously doubt any part of metropolitan France would have been ceded. Pieces of more valuable colonies are more credible.
Plus, what happens after the war when the local residents start demanding independence?
 
ISTR it was the other way around. The British disavowed the treaty, but France didn't. Only for Mussolini not having it ratified because it was too small an offer.



I would have thought that to be a precondition for peace with Spain, especially it repaying the war debts. Perhaps you know more details?



All that stuff looks pretty much useless to me. Still in the realm of possible. Unless there was a substantial contribution to the war, I seriously doubt any part of metropolitan France would have been ceded. Pieces of more valuable colonies are more credible.
Plus, what happens after the war when the local residents start demanding independence?
The French didn't get to voting on it. Mussolini would have gotten the most valuable areas in the north, far more land in the south than the disputed border would have called for, plus a large economic zone. It seemed s good deal.

Why would Italy need peace with Spain? They were their prime backers. If they keep their planes there, what do they do about it? All the face saving things about leases, friendship, and such would be used for staying there.

Yes. It was useless. After WWI they were given lots of African land from France and Britain (Mostly Britain. France only liked giving land when they lost wars.) that wasn't exactly useful. They would have also gotten chunks of Dalmatia, Albania, and Turkey, but they didn't have the muscle to take it.
 
All that stuff looks pretty much useless to me. Still in the realm of possible. Unless there was a substantial contribution to the war, I seriously doubt any part of metropolitan France would have been ceded. Pieces of more valuable colonies are more credible.

I agree with this. I could see Tunisia and maybe French Somaliland, possibly along with some more padding for Libya carved out from Algeria, Niger and Chad.
 
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