Camelot Rev. Presidents List

1960: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson (D)

1964: John F. Kennedy/Lyndon B. Johnson (D)

1968: George Romney/Nelson Rockefeller (R)

1972: George Romney/Nelson Rockefeller (R)

1976: Robert F. Kennedy/George McGovern (D)

1978: George McGovern/Edmund Muskie (D) (RFK assassinated by Samuel Joseph Byck)

1980: Jack Kemp/George HW Bush (R)

1984: Jack Kemp/George HW Bush (R)

1988: Edmund Muskie/Ted Kennedy (D)

1992: John McCain/Nancy Reagan (R)

1996: John McCain/Nancy Reagan (R)

2000: John Kerry/Joe Biden (D)

2004: John Kerry/Joe Biden (D)

2008: Newt Gingrich/Luis Fortuño (R)

2012: Newt Gingrich/Luis Fortuño (R)

There, that's my list, now let's have RB point out a million flaws with it even though a Canadian shouldn't have that much knowledge of American politics. :p

And some day I'm going to find this Jesus Kennedy fellow and prove he's a real Kennedy they covered up. :p
 
Zach: I regret the consequences.

1960-76: perfectly reasonable
1976: Bobby is never going to take an overaged hippie as his running mate, despite their personal friendship. I'd suggest Fritz Hollings or Fred Harris for RFK in '76 or '80. A New Democrat with a Southerner.
1978: butterflies say no to Byck, and I'm assuming the Service will have learned a few things from Dallas.
1980/4: Flip the ticket and that's quite plausible.
1988: Too old
1992/6: Not unless McCain gets into politics earlier, and who's Nancy Reagan?
2000/4: OK.
2008/12: OK.
 
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I'd really love to see someone make Jesse Jackson President at some point. Damn it, I don't care how ASB it is! ;)
 
oakvale: I nearly did in FoF, but he got vetoed by the Maharajah. It wasn't a pretty scene, let me tell you. ;)

*weeps for what might have been*

Oh, oh, I thought of another non-cliché President: Paul Simon. The bow-tie wearing Illinois Senator, that is.
 
oakvale: That's perhaps the most original proposal as yet. I hope Simon wasn't too closely linked to Hizzonor, otherwise there could be *issues*.
 
oakvale: That's perhaps the most original proposal as yet. I hope Simon wasn't too closely linked to Hizzonor, otherwise there could be *issues*.

Not as far as I know. In fact, I think Simon had something of a reputation for integrity. He's actually one my favourite historical politicians - butterflies be damned, I'm hoping to work him in down the road in my current TL.
 
1992/6: Not unless McCain gets into politics earlier, and who's Nancy Reagan?

Yeah this is with and earlier McCain political career, and Nancy Reagan was Ronald Reagan's wife, she was very politically active and considering entering politics, in this timeline, she does.
 
Someone should add in Gary Hart, who's in the weird position of being a possible Presidential cliché in our timeline but in almost no alternate ones. :D
 
Zach: In this climate Pat Brown will likely be re-elected in '66 depending on how civil rights goes for JFK. So Ronald Reagan might never become a politician.

Oakvale: Hart has the zipper problem in an era when said problem cannot be hidden from the media.
 
Likely the same in Berkeley and Watts, because the civil rights legislation will be slightly delayed from OTL. :eek: Another interesting prospect is Sam Yorty successfully taking the Dem gubernatorial nomination from Pat. Now that would be interesting.
 
Camelot Revisited: POTUS List

35. John F. “Jack” Kennedy (D-MA): January 20th 1961-July 20th 1966*
36. Terry Sanford (D-NC): July 20th 1966-January 20th 1969

37. James A. “Jim” Allen (R-OH): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
38. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA): January 20th 1973-January 20th 1981**
39. Howard H. Baker Jr. (R-TN): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
40. Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993
41. Alonse M. “Al” D’Amato (R-NY): January 20th 1993-October 7th 1998***
42. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX): October 7th 1998-January 20th 2001**

43. Birch E. “Evan” Bayh (D-IN): January 20th 2001-January 20th 2005
44. Michael K. “Mike” Ditka (R-IL): January 20th 2005-January 20th 2013**
45. William F. “Bill” Owens (R-CO): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017

46. Cory A. Booker (D-NJ): January 20th 2017-???**

Notes.

35. First Irish American/Roman Catholic President, later Died in office due to a massive heart attack via high level of workload stress and high cholesterol levels from steroid treatments to help Jack battle his Addison’s disease.
36. First Brother of a former President to be elected.
41. First Italian American President, later First to Resign the Presidency due to corruption charges.
42. First Female President, and First President to never be elected (Due to the Resignation of Vice President Oliver North in 1997)
44. First Former Sports Coach President.
46. First African American President.

Camelot Revisited: VEEP List

37. Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1965****
38. Terry Sanford (D-NC): January 20th 1965-July 20th 1966

Vacant: July 20th 1966-January 20th 1968
39. Abraham A. Ribicoff (D-CT): January 20th 1968-January 20th 1969**
40. George H.W. Bush (R-TX): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
41. Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO): January 20th 1973-January 20th 1981
42. Guy A. Vander Jagt (R-MI): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
43. John R. “Jock” McKernan (D-ME): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993
44. Oliver L. “Ollie” North (R-VA): January 20th 1993-August 14th 1997***
Vacant: August 14th-November 22nd 1997
45. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX): November 22nd 1997-October 7th 1998**
Vacant: October 7th-December 5th 1998
46. Jack F. Kemp (R-NY): December 5th 1998-January 20th 2001
47. James A. “Jim” Folsom (D-AL): January 20th 2001-January 20th 2005
48. William F. “Bill” Owens (R-CO): January 20th 2005-January 20th 2013
49. Alberto R. Gonzales (R-TX): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017

50. David H. Petraeus (D-VA): January 20th 2017-???

Notes

37. The assassination of personal friend Texas Governor John B. Connally in Dallas and personal animosity with the Kennedy’s, Lyndon decides against serving another term as VP.
39. First Jewish American Vice President
45. First Female Vice President
49. First Hispanic American Vice President.

Camelot Revisited: Defeated Tickets

1960: Richard M. Nixon (R-CA)/Henry C. Lodge Jr. (R-MA)
1964: Barry M. Goldwater (R-AZ)/William W. Scranton (R-PA)
1968: Terry Sanford (D-NC)/Hubert H. Humphrey (D-MN)
1972: Jim Rhodes (R-OH): George H.W. Bush (R-TX)
1976: George H.W. Bush (R-TX)/Ronald W. Reagan (R-CA); George Wallace (I-AL)/James L. Buckley (I-NY)
1980: Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO)/Hugh L. Carey (D-NY)
1984. Jerry Brown (D-CA)/Andrew Young (D-GA)
1988. Guy A. Vander Jagt (R-MI)/Pat Robertson (R-VA)
1992: Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX)/Jock McKernan (D-ME)
1996: Jock McKernan (D-ME)/Bill Nelson (D-FL)
2000: Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX)/Jack Kemp (R-NY)
2004: Evan Bayh (D-IN)/Jim Folsom (D-AL)
2008: Jim Fosolm (D-AL)/Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
2012: Russ Feingold (D-WI)/Ed Rendell (D-PA)
2016: Bill Owens (R-CO)/Alberto Gonzales (R-TX)
 
Likely the same in Berkeley and Watts, because the civil rights legislation will be slightly delayed from OTL. :eek: Another interesting prospect is Sam Yorty successfully taking the Dem gubernatorial nomination from Pat. Now that would be interesting.
The few comments I'll make:

Civil rights legislation may have some modifications and deviations here and there, which is to be expected given any alteration in history. But you have to take into account that Kennedy, by the time Johnson would have assumed office, was on course to come to about the same support for Civil Rights as Johnson (or as much as needed, at least), and that it was the Senate and Congress too which did a heck of a lot to get that bill through. And Jack may be forced to use his Background Cowboy (something he was afraid to do since, if I recall correctly, he feared that if he gave Lyndon an inch he would get power hungry and take over the entire show).
The biggest problem may be overcoming the Dixiecrats threatening filibuster, but that's not the end of the world and can be overcome (and in this era, the filibuster only requires you put enough of a front up against it to tire down the opposition and just get them to shut up; again, getting more difficult during this era, but not impossible). So there's probably not going to be massive detrimental happenings on ATL Civil Rights.

On Pat Brown, he lost for a few reasons. He was seeking a third term when he said he would not, Civil Rights riots (Watts), and Vietnam (1966 was a downhill year on support for the war, and as a result the establishment; this is when Johnson himself began to sink), not to mention some gaffes. I'm zipping my lip on the end result of it, but there's some bare info.
 
Camelot Revisited: POTUS List

35. John F. “Jack” Kennedy (D-MA): January 20th 1961-July 20th 1966*
36. Terry Sanford (D-NC): July 20th 1966-January 20th 1969

37. James A. “Jim” Allen (R-OH): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
38. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA): January 20th 1973-January 20th 1981**
39. Howard H. Baker Jr. (R-TN): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
40. Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993
41. Alonse M. “Al” D’Amato (R-NY): January 20th 1993-October 7th 1998***
42. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX): October 7th 1998-January 20th 2001**

43. Birch E. “Evan” Bayh (D-IN): January 20th 2001-January 20th 2005
44. Michael K. “Mike” Ditka (R-IL): January 20th 2005-January 20th 2013**
45. William F. “Bill” Owens (R-CO): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017

46. Cory A. Booker (D-NJ): January 20th 2017-???**

Notes.

35. First Irish American/Roman Catholic President, later Died in office due to a massive heart attack via high level of workload stress and high cholesterol levels from steroid treatments to help Jack battle his Addison’s disease.
36. First Brother of a former President to be elected.
41. First Italian American President, later First to Resign the Presidency due to corruption charges.
42. First Female President, and First President to never be elected (Due to the Resignation of Vice President Oliver North in 1997)
44. First Former Sports Coach President.
46. First African American President.

Camelot Revisited: VEEP List

37. Lyndon B. Johnson (D-TX): January 20th 1961-January 20th 1965****
38. Terry Sanford (D-NC): January 20th 1965-July 20th 1966

Vacant: July 20th 1966-January 20th 1968
39. Abraham A. Ribicoff (D-CT): January 20th 1968-January 20th 1969**
40. George H.W. Bush (R-TX): January 20th 1969-January 20th 1973
41. Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO): January 20th 1973-January 20th 1981
42. Guy A. Vander Jagt (R-MI): January 20th 1981-January 20th 1989
43. John R. “Jock” McKernan (D-ME): January 20th 1989-January 20th 1993
44. Oliver L. “Ollie” North (R-VA): January 20th 1993-August 14th 1997***
Vacant: August 14th-November 22nd 1997
45. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX): November 22nd 1997-October 7th 1998**
Vacant: October 7th-December 5th 1998
46. Jack F. Kemp (R-NY): December 5th 1998-January 20th 2001
47. James A. “Jim” Folsom (D-AL): January 20th 2001-January 20th 2005
48. William F. “Bill” Owens (R-CO): January 20th 2005-January 20th 2013
49. Alberto R. Gonzales (R-TX): January 20th 2013-January 20th 2017

50. David H. Petraeus (D-VA): January 20th 2017-???

Notes

37. The assassination of personal friend Texas Governor John B. Connally in Dallas and personal animosity with the Kennedy’s, Lyndon decides against serving another term as VP.
39. First Jewish American Vice President
45. First Female Vice President
49. First Hispanic American Vice President.

Camelot Revisited: Defeated Tickets

1960: Richard M. Nixon (R-CA)/Henry C. Lodge Jr. (R-MA)
1964: Barry M. Goldwater (R-AZ)/William W. Scranton (R-PA)
1968: Terry Sanford (D-NC)/Hubert H. Humphrey (D-MN)
1972: Jim Rhodes (R-OH): George H.W. Bush (R-TX)
1976: George H.W. Bush (R-TX)/Ronald W. Reagan (R-CA); George Wallace (I-AL)/James L. Buckley (I-NY)
1980: Warren E. Hearnes (D-MO)/Hugh L. Carey (D-NY)
1984. Jerry Brown (D-CA)/Andrew Young (D-GA)
1988. Guy A. Vander Jagt (R-MI)/Pat Robertson (R-VA)
1992: Lloyd M. Bentsen (D-TX)/Jock McKernan (D-ME)
1996: Jock McKernan (D-ME)/Bill Nelson (D-FL)
2000: Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-TX)/Jack Kemp (R-NY)
2004: Evan Bayh (D-IN)/Jim Folsom (D-AL)
2008: Jim Fosolm (D-AL)/Dennis Kucinich (D-OH)
2012: Russ Feingold (D-WI)/Ed Rendell (D-PA)
2016: Bill Owens (R-CO)/Alberto Gonzales (R-TX)

Any Comments on my list Nort?
 
Any Comments on my list Nort?

I can't comment too much since that would help in revealing it. I will say it does deviate from my Master List, how much and if the parties are the same with different people, and what things it does have in common with the Master List, I won't say. It does give me ideas for the blank area that occurs in the 1980s/1990s/2000s (the whole of the 1980's isn't necessarily blank, BTW; keep in mind the different elections in 1988, 1985 and 1988 which all play on the political landscape. Where it occurs exactly, I can't reveal).

I will say Teddy is too cliche in AH in my opinion. Whether that cliche still applies here may be up for debate.

I believe someone is missing, who Norton said is on the list at some point. ;)
Who'd I say, again?
 
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