Calais in a Burgundian timeline?

the DUCHY of Burgundy, the one ruled by Charles the Bold, is the one referred to in this WI question.

so let's say Charles wins the Burgundian Wars, and his duchy (or more likely, Kingdom after this) survives with the Low Countries, present day Burgundy, Lorraine, and some of northeastern France.

I know Burgundy got along very well with England at the time, so if Burgundy still existed, would England keep Calais for a lot longer, possibly long enough to be comparable to OTL Gibraltar?

...
 
The two countries would probably end up at war with eachother in all those centuries, in which the Burgundians most likely take the enclave, just like the French did in 1558.
 
Interesting, because maybe England would make a REAL comeback after Edward IV not just the hoped-for one of Henry VIII's reign. If he were allied to a Burgundy with its main force in the North and no imperial commitments, it would be very hard for the king there to drop out of a war and renege on commitments, therefore England could well march on Paris with Burgundian allies and end up with a great chunk of Normandy back in its hands - an interesting idea that, Tudor Normandy

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
True that there would likely be a war at somepoint.

It depends on how Burgundy survives though. Burgundy surviving normally goes hand in hand with Plantaganent (Spl) 100YW victory.
 
There are other options.

Burgundy OTL ended because Charles the Bold only produced a daughter and then married her of to Maximilian, leading to the absorbtion of the Burgundian inheritance in the Habsburg posessions. There were no English involved there.

A continued Burgundy could occur becuase a male heir appears, or Mary marries in such a way her part of the inheritance is the dominant part. A minor German prince would qualify here. Losing the ancestral Duchy of Burgundy would probably happen in this case, but the capital and court was already in Brussels for a reason.
 
True that there would likely be a war at somepoint.

It depends on how Burgundy survives though. Burgundy surviving normally goes hand in hand with Plantaganent (Spl) 100YW victory.


how come the two go hand in hand?

Losing the ancestral Duchy of Burgundy would probably happen in this case, but the capital and court was already in Brussels for a reason.


I thought the capital was in Dijon? :confused:
 
how come the two go hand in hand?

Because Charles married the sister of Edward IV and Richard III as his last wife


I thought the capital was in Dijon? :confused:

One, you have to remember that 'capitals' often mean either the biggest urbanisation in a polity or just where the ruler fancies having his court most of the time

Two, you have to remember that Burgundy was an amalgam of inheritances, built on the French duchy (capital Dijon) head male-to-male from the French king as a vassal, but including by inheritance, and owned in perpetuity, the Flanders and Netherlands duchies

So, if the male line dies out France takes back ducal Burgundy (Dijon etc) but the rest remains whole

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
okay, so also, I was thinking, in order for Burgundy to survive, Charles the Bold might need a male heir.


if he got one, might this lead to an extended rein of the Valois Dynasty (or at least the Valois-Burgundy branch?) and what would the effects be if (or when) the main branch ruling France dies out?

since I am very poor at figuring out the medieval dynasties, someone better at analyzing this type of thing could share their insight.
 
okay, so also, I was thinking, in order for Burgundy to survive, Charles the Bold might need a male heir.


if he got one, might this lead to an extended rein of the Valois Dynasty (or at least the Valois-Burgundy branch?) and what would the effects be if (or when) the main branch ruling France dies out?

since I am very poor at figuring out the medieval dynasties, someone better at analyzing this type of thing could share their insight.

Long-term the French Valois don't die out until the end of the 16th century and the accession of the Bourbons from out of Navarre (Valois, Bourbon etc are all cadet branches of the Capetians anyway since its all male-to-male descent over the centuries)

If Charles had a son instead of his OTL daughter (the simplest way of giving him a male heir) there would be the worry that he might get killed in battle, since no male heir to Burgundy is going to shirk battle. In addition, he would be quite likely to be granted a crown by the Pope, so France is going to be even more keen on annihilating Burgundy before this could happen (since if it did it would be the Aquitaine situation all over again, where a French province remains theoretically under the king but is now part of the domains of a foreign king)

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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