Byzantium-wank Map Challenge

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

and what's the hell with Ethiopia? They holding the Imperial Army at bay with the Ark of The Covenant?)

Bruce

That made me laugh out loud for a long time. Ark of the Covenant. Hee.

It could be that Ethiopia allied with the empire, and so maintained its independence - but on the other hand, and empire with no competitors might not want to put up with apostasy.

Also, how did the Byzantines keep from melting into little puddles when they stepped into Sub-Saharan Africa?

 

[Abdul Hadi Pasha]

Way, way too late. This would have to be a 6th c POD, and even then it´s pretty hard to justify.

The best I've been able to do is have the Ottomans cut off in Europe, defeated as a heavy cost, then have Byzantium overrun the whole of Greece. From there they raise a genuine army and head into Anatolia, essentially replacing the Ottomans during their rise and later falling in much the same way. Should nationalism gain precedent as it did in the 1800s and the Greeks not be removed from Anatolia, you would likely see at best a shell of Byzantium including what we would call southern Italy, Greece, Albania, Bulgaria, Macedonia/southern Serbia, and much of Anatolia by the mid-1900s.

 

[Rockingham]

Is it acceptable for the red area to be a simply religious "empire" similar to the shadow caliphate, or maybe a bit more like the holy roman empire?

 

[Guildencrantz]

what would need to happen here, is that the turks would need to stay a disunited culture of tribes on the steppe(every conquerer knows that a disunited culture is easy to exterminate i.e. celtic britain, medival japan, anglo-saxon england...) also, Muhammed would need to convert to eather christianity or judaism. And, every one needs to stay catholic. no christianity schism would help a butt loade

 

[Fardell]

A New Map

Due to criticisms of the previous map I have edited the map. I have also put a year on it.

 

[Max Sinister]

A TL would be very interesting.

 

[Nova]

When you make Ethiopia and China bigger, all you do is make them bigger targets to the Super-Byzantium. I suppose they could have been parts that have recently broken off, but thats the only way such large independent states would survive in the face of a super empire.

 

[M79]

OK, have Manzikert fall in favor of the Byzantines with a few solid emperors after that. The Greeks colonize Australia/America/Africa and conquer much of southern Asia then take out the rest of the planet by 1500.

It might work to have the Byzantines take much of Greece even in the 1300s if the local Greeks support it, the Ottomans deal with the plague or their neighbors less effectively, and the leadership is both united/competent. Should Constantinople fill the gap of Bursa I think the Byzantines *might* be able to replace the Ottomans in OTL complete with fall in the 20th century.

 

[trajen777]

Have either of the following ::

• No Plague of Justinian – goes on to conquer Spain –Stable Italy / find Canaries Islands and America???
• Maurice not overthrown – defeat Islam – recapture Italy

 

[Fardell]

An excerpt

Here is an excerpt of the Multiverse story I am working on which involves this world.

15 October 1996 – Wongara/Universe 7
Chris had by this time discovered another universe and introduced the person he met there to the other universes. He was visiting Angela after having shown those people through the known multiverse and returned them home.

“So, they liked what they saw?” Angela asked.
“Definitely” Chris said.

But then something, that would change things forever, happened.

Chris was looking out from Angela’s family’s dining room at what he could see of Wongara from that angle, when there was a flash, and a person appeared.
“Isn’t that…” Angela said, scared.
“…Rebecca” Chris said.
“From Terraia?” Angela asked, though she didn’t really need the confirmation from Chris.
“Yes, it is I, and I am sorry to inform you, Angela Farr, that Wongara, as of now, belongs to the Roman Empire of my world” Rebecca said.
“What gives you the right to say that?” Angela demanded.
“This!” Rebecca said. She pressed a button on her device, half a minute later there were multiple flashes around what they could see of Wongara. Roman soldiers had now crossed between the universes.
“So, the Roman World Empire of Terraia is invading the Australia of Aerith?” Chris asked.
“To begin with, we will start with Australia, then Italy and Turkey, and then the rest of this world, and then we will start on other worlds, this is the Beginning of our dominance of the multiverse” Rebecca said.
Chris could see the soldiers entering the houses. “Inside!” he told Angela, they both ran into the dining area and closed the sliding door.
Angela’s family were all home. They had heard the conversation between Chris and Rebecca. “Ok, I can take you away from here to another universe” Chris said.
“We are ready to go” Angela’s mother said.
At that moment, Rebecca came inside. “I am sorry that it has come to this, I wish that you would never have come to my universe, then this wouldn’t have had happened” Rebecca said.
“Well it has now” Chris said.
“Indeed, and now you must leave or your world will be take over at the same time as this one” Rebecca said.
“I thought as much” Chris said. He grabbed his device and went over amidst the Farrs.
“You can’t take them to your universe” Rebecca said.
“I am not, I am taking them to one of the others, I am sure you will find out which one sooner or later” Chris said.
“Ok, I will find out, and that universe will face an invasion also, sooner rather than eventually” Rebecca said.
“Ok” Chris said, as he activated his device. “We will meet again, and I will build an alliance against the Terraian Roman Empire” Chris said. Then with a flash, Rebecca was left alone in the Farr’s house, which was practically identical to her house. All over Wongara, more soldiers whom had been quartered in Murrumbidgerie entered this universe. Then Rebecca cried, at her own role in having unleashed a horror on the multiverse…

 

[Riain]

Charlemange does 2 things, ignores his inheritence customs to allow only 1 successor and marries Irene. A fusion of the 2 cultures ensures and they then bound from strength to strength.

 

[ArKhan]

Aliens from the planet impossible come down and give them all weapons.

 

[B_Munro]

On a silly impulse, I did a map myself...

It's the year 2007. The Empire, which briefly controlled the entire planet (if not everywhere through direct rule) a century ago has withdrawn from much of Asia and northern Europe: the democratization of the Empire over the last three centuries has made rule over the vast non-Christian populations of east and south Asia impossible (nobody wants these people dominating the voting for the Imperial Parliament: OTOH, the sort of brutal regime necessary to keep them in the empire as second-class citizens is no longer palatable to the Empire's voters).

Subsaharan Africa, not colonized until quite recently due to the ghastly disease environment, and presently ruled sans representation due to it's relative backwardness, may also become independent: the average Imperial citizen considers himself or herself tolerant, but really, these people, blacker than the darkest Ethiopian, and worshiping idols and eating eachother only a century ago: do we really want them in the Imperial Parliament, or running for First Consul?

Also gaining their independence are the northern European states, whose heterodox religious beliefs and unrelenting terrorist activity have made them even more of a stink in the Empire's nostrils than the turbulent Chinese Dominion. The scattered Saxonian, English, and Scandinavian colonies of NE America, having found unity in the struggle against Byzantium, emerged from the period of Byzantine rule as a new and unified (more or less) nation.

The present ruling house is of Russian origin: the Russian Empire dynastically unified with the Byzantine one back in the 1700s, and has maintained a somewhat autonomous position within the Empire, which has occasionally caused problems, although the present Emperor is more Greek than an Athenian.

Byzantium maintains it's nuclear monopoly. It's citizens think of themself as enlightened, but no fools.

Bruce

 

[B_Munro]

And here's the map.

 

[Nicksplace27]

Wow, with a few explanation's and thought behind it, you can turn a completely implausible map into something concievable. Good job, I like this intensely expansionist Byzantium...

 

[Jasen777]

Here's mine

 

[Fardell]

When you make Ethiopia and China bigger, all you do is make them bigger targets to the Super-Byzantium. I suppose they could have been parts that have recently broken off, but thats the only way such large independent states would survive in the face of a super empire.

I realised that the small Ethiopia in the original map was implausible, and knew that it needed to take up more of sub-saharan Africa. As for it being a bigger target, maybe the 4 non-Byzantium nations are allied together against Byzantium... (at least in secret, and would not threaten the others if Byzantium is threatening.)

 

[Broz]

but how? i mean? who? what do they use to power the flying saucers then? or do they mass produce the AK47 in Sparta?
what moves the romans to america? where do the mongols go? mars?
and the germans? the huns?

and bizantium? what does jesus on steroids come back and start a tousand years of holy rule?

and how do you "defeat" islam?

and yes etiopia would of been bigger, on roman maps practicaly all of africa below sahara was known as ethiopia

 

[SeanB]

Here is my (imo) fairly plausible Byzawank map of the Empire just shortly before the black plague hits Constantinople. In this timeline the main POD is that the Laskarids remain on the throne, with Theodore II Laskaris managing to live a few years longer, during which he kills a rebellious Michael Palaiologos, allowing his son to inherit the throne peacefully.

They manage to prevent the Ottomans from settling around Sogut, but the clan successfully flees into central Anatolia and carves out a beylik there. Their main enemies are the Karamanids at this point, who are allied with the Empire, as the Ottomans still attempt periodic raids into western Anatolia.

The stretch of land on the baltic might be a bit much, but they would still have Chersonesos at least. Though it is hard to differentiate the red from the purple on a small scale, some of the Aegean islands are red, meaning they are owned by Genoa. And yeah, Serbia shares Genoa's color, but is obviously unrelated. Same with Treb and Naples. The orange blob in Anatolia is just a symbol for smaller Turkish states.

 

[rcduggan]

Here's mine

That one is definitely plausible, with all of Anatolia still under their control the Byzantines would be a lot stronger. How come they haven't expanded back into the Balkans?