Byzantine Egypt - effects on Axum/Ethiopia?

Is there anyway we could see Byzantium hold onto Egypt? If so, how does this effect Axum/Ethiopia?
There might be a close relationship regarding trade, cultural exchange etc. - in the tradition of earlier Greek Axumite exchange.Maybe it has a lasting affect on Orthodoxy and developement of regions like Sudan or Arabia. Either they become close partners or even rivals and military adversaries-or both. Maybe there is kind of relationship between the two Orthodox nations like the Byzantines had with the Rus ? Interesting would be lasting established diplomatic ties. We could see Ethiopian goods and merchants in Constantinoples, even a Ethiopian quarter and churches. Interesting would be also Ethiopians serving the Empire or Greeks, Armenians etc. serving the Axumite/Ethiopians.
 

Marc

Donor
A possible consequence in being frustrated by failing to capture Egypt could be a stronger penetration southward by the Arabic world resulting in an Islamic Ethiopia; with far ranging consequences for East Africa.
 
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There might be a close relationship regarding trade, cultural exchange etc. - in the tradition of earlier Greek Axumite exchange.Maybe it has a lasting affect on Orthodoxy and developement of regions like Sudan or Arabia. Either they become close partners or even rivals and military adversaries-or both. Maybe there is kind of relationship between the two Orthodox nations like the Byzantines had with the Rus ? Interesting would be lasting established diplomatic ties. We could see Ethiopian goods and merchants in Constantinoples, even a Ethiopian quarter and churches. Interesting would be also Ethiopians serving the Empire or Greeks, Armenians etc. serving the Axumite/Ethiopians.
How much of an effect would there be if Ethiopia had turned to Eastern Orthodoxy?
 
A possible consequence in being frustrated by failing to capture Egypt could be a stronger penetration southward by the Arabic world resulting in an Islamic Ethiopia; with far ranging consequences for East Africa.
How successful do you think these efforts would be?
 

Philip

Donor
Is there anyway we could see Byzantium hold onto Egypt?

What POD do you have in mind? Do you avoid the Byzantine-Sassanian War? The Byzantines retake Egypt from the Sassanians and then hold the line against the Arabian forces? Egypt falls to the Arabs but is retaken by the Byzantines? Something earlier? The timing is critical as it will affect the resolution of the dyophysite/miaphysite/monophysite controversy and the religious relationship between Egypt and Constantinople.
 
A lot of Byzantine contact with Axum will be transmitted via Makuria and Alodia. Those states OTL strayed from the Eastern Orthodox path, but with stronger Byzantine influence, who knows what might happen (along with the effect on their mother church in Egypt proper).

A possible consequence in being frustrated by failing to capture Egypt could be a stronger penetration southward by the Arabic world resulting in an Islamic Ethiopia; with far ranging consequences for East Africa.

Not at the time when Axum was still so powerful. And if the Byzantines hold the Levant, then they've strangled a major path of expansion for the Arabs (even if they lose Carthage and Mauretania to the Berbers), and who knows how well the Sassanids are doing in this time. This could have a major impact on the Caliphate.

Even without Axum, there's still Makuria and Alodia. And Axum's defeat will fracture Ethiopia into Muslim kingdoms, Christian kingdoms, and Jewish kingdoms.
 
A lot of Byzantine contact with Axum will be transmitted via Makuria and Alodia. Those states OTL strayed from the Eastern Orthodox path, but with stronger Byzantine influence, who knows what might happen (along with the effect on their mother church in Egypt proper).

Not at the time when Axum was still so powerful. And if the Byzantines hold the Levant, then they've strangled a major path of expansion for the Arabs (even if they lose Carthage and Mauretania to the Berbers), and who knows how well the Sassanids are doing in this time. This could have a major impact on the Caliphate.

Even without Axum, there's still Makuria and Alodia. And Axum's defeat will fracture Ethiopia into Muslim kingdoms, Christian kingdoms, and Jewish kingdoms.
How much do you think Byzantium would effect aspects of Ethiopia to the modern-day?
 

Marc

Donor
A lot of Byzantine contact with Axum will be transmitted via Makuria and Alodia. Those states OTL strayed from the Eastern Orthodox path, but with stronger Byzantine influence, who knows what might happen (along with the effect on their mother church in Egypt proper).



Not at the time when Axum was still so powerful. And if the Byzantines hold the Levant, then they've strangled a major path of expansion for the Arabs (even if they lose Carthage and Mauretania to the Berbers), and who knows how well the Sassanids are doing in this time. This could have a major impact on the Caliphate.

Even without Axum, there's still Makuria and Alodia. And Axum's defeat will fracture Ethiopia into Muslim kingdoms, Christian kingdoms, and Jewish kingdoms.

Of course this scenario is very case dependent on what is the overall picture of the Byzantine Empire from the 7th century on.
Working on the assumption that Islam rose and became culturally powerful and that the Arab hegiras that lasted for some centuries was still a powerful social dynamic, that energy could easily be expressed in East Africa. We're not talking about the initial wave of conquest, but also about the subsequent migration of major Arabic tribes; they are going to go somewhere, and across the Red Sea is fairly easy. They will have numbers, desire, and a very good military system.
Again, all that relies on a modest forking of history.
 
Is there anyway we could see Byzantium hold onto Egypt? If so, how does this effect Axum/Ethiopia?
Nit pick.

There was never a Byzantine Empire. There was only the Eastern Roman Empire. That annoyed 16th century western (Roman Catholic) historians so they made up the name based the small settlement that was erased by the construction of Constantinople.
 
Nit pick.

There was never a Byzantine Empire. There was only the Eastern Roman Empire. That annoyed 16th century western (Roman Catholic) historians so they made up the name based the small settlement that was erased by the construction of Constantinople.
No offense but I really couldn't care less about the name - I'm more interested in the relationship between Byzantium, Byzantine Egypt and Axum/Ethiopia if the Byzantines hold onto Egypt.
 
Yeah, I think the rule of cool can take precedence as far as naming goes. Temujin may be Genghis Khan's real name, and the stars and bars wasn't the official confederate flag, but they do better at conveying what you want to convey. IMO East Roman Empire is better as a description for the early phases of their history, when there was actually a west Roman Empire to compare against.
 
Ok. A surviving Roman Egypt means that the Arabs have failed to break out of Arabia, at least to the North and West. The Roman Navy will still be in the Red sea so Axum's access to the sea is secure and they are not driven into the Ethiopian uplands. The Horn of Africa would eventually become part of the Axum Empire as would much of what is now Kenya and Uganda. Axum would remain in contact with both Egypt and India and would inevitably develop technologies on the same level. It would probably be Axum that brings the rear mounted rudder and the compass to the western world.
 
Ok. A surviving Roman Egypt means that the Arabs have failed to break out of Arabia, at least to the North and West. The Roman Navy will still be in the Red sea so Axum's access to the sea is secure and they are not driven into the Ethiopian uplands. The Horn of Africa would eventually become part of the Axum Empire as would much of what is now Kenya and Uganda. Axum would remain in contact with both Egypt and India and would inevitably develop technologies on the same level. It would probably be Axum that brings the rear mounted rudder and the compass to the western world.
Why would the Axumites expand into Kenya and Uganda?
 
Having the Byzantines/ERE win at Yarmouk is a step in the right direction, but I don't think they can hold on to the Levant/Egypt indefinitely even with a win - unless they kill al-Walid or something major in the battle which is entirely possible of course.
 
Why would the Axumites expand into Kenya and Uganda?
They'll follow Coptic Christian missionaries seeking converts or isolated locations for monastaries. They'll also be looking for trade and raw materials and as the only "advanced" civilisation in East Africa will have little effective opposition.
 
One idea is to have Byzantines hold off arabs for a bit in africa. Then asia gets too much pressure, constantinople is too threatened. Make alexandria or cartage the de facto capital, eventually a north african focused empire might occur. Kinda far off but possible.
 
They'll follow Coptic Christian missionaries seeking converts or isolated locations for monastaries. They'll also be looking for trade and raw materials and as the only "advanced" civilisation in East Africa will have little effective opposition.
Hmm. I feel it will start off in the form of local tribes forming kingdoms and paying tribute to axum, slowly adopting their culture and marrying into nobility.
 
They'll follow Coptic Christian missionaries seeking converts or isolated locations for monastaries. They'll also be looking for trade and raw materials and as the only "advanced" civilisation in East Africa will have little effective opposition.

The opposition wouldn't be from humans, but from Mother Nature, since the Sudd surrounds most of Ethiopia, and Ethiopian agriculture and civilization was fundamentally highlands based.
 
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