Burgundy Ho!

It all starts with family issues. After Gundioch's death in 473 A.D. there was a bit of trouble as to who was in power out of his four sons named Chilperic II, Gundobad, Godegiesel, and Godomar. Chilperic II was officially in power, and had submitted to the authority of the Western Roman Empire since the 470s. Problem was, Gundobad was a bit power hungry, and decided to off Godomar in 486, and assassinate Chilperic in 493, killing his wife and sending off his daughters, one to become a nun, and the other to her uncle Godegiesel.

Unfortunately, Godegiesel was no pushover, and allied with the Frankish King Clovis I, who had married the daughter, Clotilde, who didn't become a nun. In the end, Gundobad was spared by Clovis, despite having his forces crushed, and was forced to pay yearly tribute. Eventually, Gundobad broke his tribute, regained power, and did away with Godegiesel, making him the sole king of Burgundy. The bugger died peacefully in his sleep, succeeded by his two sons, Sigismund and Godomar (name him after the brother you murdered! Brilliant! Wouldn't make the kid paranoid at all...) after converting to Catholicism and making peace with the Franks

My idea is what if Gundobad never managed to off Chilperic, and was instead traced to the attempt and was killed himself? That would leave Chilperic and Godegiesel in power, and, more importantly, the civil war that helps the Franks take power in 534 never happens. Maybe Burgundy ends up taking control of Auvergne from the Visigoths instead of the Franks, and maybe even Aquitane.

Thus, we have the Frankish Kingdom, which is huge, and the Burgundian Kingdom, which would be huge. This would really shake the world, as the Austrasian King Charlemagne, who later became Holy Roman Emperor, was part of the Frankish Empire and if he could never take power like he did, Europe would not look the same at all, because it was never romanized.

Ideas on how we could actually have an outcome similar to this, and what the results would be?
 
Well, I'll continue on from here, then.

504 Ani Domino

Chilperic has just died of dysentery, leaving Godegisel the only remaining king of Burgundy. Having just sired a son from an Aquitanian noble who had been pledged to them by the peoples there to ensure their aid in defending themselves from the Franks. The son, named Albrecht, was born on December 25, which heralded great promise to the Burgundians, who had just converted to Catholicism from Arian Christianity to gain Rome's favour. With an heir apparent, Godegisel was ready to expand the territories of the Burgundians, and set his sights on Visigoth controlled Auvergne.

The war between the two nations, though bloody, ultimately ended in Burgundian victory as the crown of the Auvergnes moved to Godegisel's head, which deeply disturbed Clovis I, who had plans of conquering Auvergne for the Franks. Fearing that the Burgundians would gain Roman support if they tried to conquer them thanks to their Catholic faith (for it was Chilperic's daughter Clotilde who converted him to Catholicism in our own timeline), he attempted to appease the Burgundians with some minor fiefs in the hopes that it would sate them. The Burgundians, who were pleasantly surprised, gladly accepted them.

In 511 A.D., Clovis I died alone and without an heir, and the unity he had instilled upon the Frankish people had dissolved almost instantaneously as many men stood up in the hopes of gaining control of the kingdom. This left a large opening for Burgundian expansion, with the kingdom taking parts of Neustria and Austrasia by 514. However, Godegisel's death by arrow in 515 led to the end of the war as 11 year old Albrecht ascended to the throne as King of Burgundy. For six years, the war would go quiet, until Albrecht had his forces take Lombardy under the General Ulfschilde, the "new Ricimer". It seemed Burgundy was unstoppable at that time, with no true opponents except for what remained of the Austrasian and Neustrian kingdoms, as Aquitane had seemingly been cowed. Unfortunately, the Saxons had proven opportunistic much like the Burgundians, and had started to sweep up lands of their own...
 
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Thande

Donor
You know, the say the whole "Inevitable Kingdom of Burgundy" thing is a meme, you don't see that many timelines with a Burgundy...

Welcome to the board.
 
I know what Aquitane is, I was wondering whether you were referencing simply the region of Aquitane or the entire Visigothic Kingdom. You cna use the below map as a reference.

europe_500.jpg
 
Thank you! Admittedly, I've always loved Burgundy, though I originally knew little about it. Probably has something to do with sharing the name of my favourite colour.

Say, could someone drum up a few maps for me, by the way? When I get onto Francia vs Burgundy vs Saxony, I'd like to have a map of the place.

Thank you for the map, Yelnoc. I appreciate it. And I only meant the region, sorry.
 
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Thande

Donor
Thank you! Admittedly, I've always loved Burgundy, though I originally knew little about it. Probably has something to do with sharing the name of my favourite colour.

Say, could someone drum up a few maps for me, by the way? When I get onto Francia vs Burgundy vs Saxony, I'd like to have a map of the place.

Thank you for the map, Yelnoc. I appreciate it. And I only meant the region, sorry.

May I suggest you check out this thread and this thread. There may be maps available already for the period you want, but if not if you ask nicely one of our whiz-bang mapmakers may cook one up for you.
 
Thank you! Admittedly, I've always loved Burgundy, though I originally knew little about it. Probably has something to do with sharing the name of my favourite colour.

Say, could someone drum up a few maps for me, by the way? When I get onto Francia vs Burgundy vs Saxony, I'd like to have a map of the place.

Thank you for the map, Yelnoc. I appreciate it. And I only meant the region, sorry.
That's perfectly alright. Here's the Generic Map Thread where you can ask one of those Cartography specialists (wizards) to make a map for you.
 
By 526, the Burgundians had established trade with the Vandal Kingdom in Carthago, and had almost successfully managed to convert the ruling body to Catholicism, which lead to the Romans taking a lighter view of the Vandals. Meanwhile, the Saxons had moved into Thuringi and Frisia, causing distress to the Franks who had finally settled down under the King Albouin I of the Franks in what is in our timeline, Belgium and Luxembourg. However, the Kingdom of Saxony was far more interested in re-establishing trade with their fellow tribesmen in the British Isles, and began to set up coastal cities in their newly conquered lands, where there were not already.

Burgundians on the Northern Coast

In 544 AD, Albrecht died and was succeeded by his sons Ricimer II and Chilperic III, along with his daughter Frida. Ricimer had proven to be a very militarily minded king, and almost immediately sent out armies to conquer the lands of Aremorica, and the petty kingdoms that had risen up by the coast after the fall of the Franks. Originally, these battles were not successful for the Burgundian armies. The new kings wanted to make their message clear "This is our land". But it seems the message was shot, as the Burgundians, five years into their expansionist campaign, rallied a massive attack and took the lands the former Franks and Britons had fought so hard to keep. Ricimer had the former kings publicly flayed, and was harsh in his punishment over his newly acquired territories with forced labour being the kindest punishment for those who would resist him.

The Frankish Kingdom took the opportunity to snatch up all the kingdoms that the Burgundians didn't, resulting in once again having a sizable kingdom for the people, though nowhere near the size it once was. The Franks spent much of their time watching their neighbours with intense paranoia, quite aware of how things had turned out once before. Despite this, the Franks thrived in their new home, and prepared themselves for a possible attack from the Saxons. However, the attack never came.

A Century of Relative Peace

When Ricimer II died by horse trampling in 559, Chilperic III took over the Kingdom. To everyone's surprise, this brother shared none of the warlike tendencies his brother had. Instead, he sought to fully unify the people under his reign, and thus created the Lex Burgundonium as a guideline for his people. Based heavily off Roman law, the laws dealt with property, criminal law, punishments, and weregild. Notably advanced for its time, the code of laws earned Chilperic a healthy amount of respect from both his subjects and his neighbours, including the Romans. He increased trade with the Vandal Kingdom, who actually took the opportunity to adapt their own laws from the Lex. Using this trade as an advantage, he bolstered the Burgundian capital of Vienne with trade, and the majesty of the city slowly came to life. Architecture taking both Gothic and Roman elements became prime feature in the city, giving it its own flavour within the area, and was a personal favourite place to visit of the Roman Emperor Justin II.

Though they had never fully converted, at least 90% of the Vandal royals had become Catholics, and enjoyed frequent visits from the ecclesiarchy. Carthago, now Kartugh became a cultural centre as more and more people took advantage of the city's prime location and slowly expanding libraries, filled with texts, once just oral stories, now written down in the newly adapted Vandal language. Arian factions had attempted to wrest control much earlier, but they found themselves deported from the nation and into the African wilderness to die, or be sold into slavery.

Saxony remained much quieter than anyone could have expected, merely interested in expanding their influence into the British Isles a little more. They met much trouble with the Angles, Celts and Britons, but managed to trump them when they took a cue from Emperor Hadrian of Rome and built a wall to keep the raiders out. Saxony had not converted to Catholicism like the other nations, preferring Arian Christianity and Wotanism instead, leading to some attempts at forcibly converting the Kingdom, though all battles were short and were gapped by long periods of peaceful quiet.
 
I have this to say about the Vandals and their so-called military might; if it were not for the mercy of Justinian, they would surely have had their kingdom wiped from the face of the Earth a century ago. I have no doubts about this.

-Byzantine Emperor Heraclius, 634 AD.
 
The Fist of Mohammed

In the year 632 Anno Domini, the Rashidun Caliphate had risen in the Middle East, and was ready to conquer territories in the name of Islam and simple human greed. So, in 634, under Caliph Umar, the Caliphate declared war on the Roman Empire. It had already conquered the Persian Empire in 633, and figured it would be simple to defeat the Byzantines and their allies.

Moving first into Syria, the Caliphate started off winning most of its battles in the Middle East, conquering as far as Turkey. However, when they went into North Africa, the soldiers were met with quite a shock. The Vandal Kingdom, though not officially aligned with Holy Rome, had sent out soldiers to aid the Byzantines in the defense of North Africa. In 639, the Caliphate invaded Egypt to find a large regiment of both Vandal and Roman soldiers who were ready to defend their territories. At first, the general of the Caliphate in Africa, Amr, thought the Vandals savages not to waste his time on. He was sadly mistaken, as his army of 4 000 soldiers were slaughtered by the Vandals, who had taken notes from Hannibal and ancient military leaders during their time in Kartugh. Amr had attempted to flee so he could recuperate his army, but he was caught, tortured, and had his head cut off and put in a gilded box, which was sent back to Caliph Umar with a message written in Latin carved into the box. "For your majesty. Surely, God is on your side."

Umar was furious, considering that he had been told that Cyrus of Alexandria's governance was incompetent enough to allow his victory. However, Cyrus had been deposed during the war, and replaced with Ionnes, a man from the central areas of the Byzantine Empire. Umar would not stand for this, and roused a larger army under a new general in 642. However, he proved inexperienced, and faced the same sort of embarassing defeat that his predecessor did as he was cut off by the Vandalo-Roman army and had most of his troops and himself enslaved, forced to convert to Christianity.

Meanwhile, the Byzantine Empire had been fomenting Persian rebellions in the Rashidun Empire in the hopes of forcing the enemy to focus inward. It more or less worked, as the Persian peoples were very displeased by being under the boot of Sharia Law. By 652, the Rashidun Caliphate had all but dissolved, having mostly retreated to Mecca and Medina. However, the Persians were less than enthused to find that the Romans had every intention of moving in and burning every Mosque they found within the area. They never wanted an Islamic Empire to rise again. For the most part, it didn't. For the rest of the next two milleniums, Islam would merely be a very minor religion, mostly seen as a cult within the region as Zoroastrianism continued to flourish among the peoples there.

Meanwhile, the Vandals had felt gipped about having their achievements for the Byzantine defense not be recognized, and only after the very real threat of war were they ceded some territory in North Africa so they would quiet down. It definitely did not do much for the political relations of the peoples, but it kept the fires of war from burning.
 
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