Thanks for the compliment but my experience is not too great: it is just that Valois Burgundy used to be one of the popular topics on (now extinct) SHWI. :)

Confessional issue may or may not became a problem, depending on how <whoever is in charge at that time> is dealing with it. Of course, the big problem would be iconoclastic activities of the over-zealous Protestants (happened in OTL): they tended to be aggressively intolerant. But with a reasonable combination of stick and carrot it probably would be possible to arrange some feasible compromise with a minimal bloodshed and disturbance.

Of course, one of the options for the Dukes/Kings would be to convert into Lutheranism, Calvinism or something like the English model (and lay their hands upon at least some of the Church property) while not abolishing Catholicism completely to minimize internal tensions: something like the "Brandenburg model" ("In my lands everyone can save his soul any way he prefers"). Probably the best time frame would be slightly after the Augsburg Peace to avoid participation in Schmalkalden League, war and potential imperial reprisals. The options was, of course, impossible under the Hapsburg rule but who said that the Burgundian Valois would be the same type of the hardcore fanatics?

But with all these colonial and confessional things we are seemingly missing the BIG PICTURE. What would be impact of this schema upon the European affairs? Quite obviously, we have "the Hapsburgs minus the Netherlands" situation. Probably we can more or less safely assume that the Spanish-Hapsburg marriage(s) still occur, that the Italian wars still happen (they started just as a conflict between France and Aragon/Castile), and that Charles Hapsburg (with one of the grandmothers being different) is still an emperor. However: (a) the Hapsburgs are obviously lacking part of the revenues that in OTL was coming from the Netherlands (can't tell how big would be financial hit) but (b) their quarrel with France is limited to the conflicting Italian claims (Naples and Milan) and there is no issue of the "Burgundian Inheritance. This removes the last stage of the Italian Wars, fighting on the Northern border of France.

Also, there is no 80 years war between Spain and rebelling provinces. Impact of this is profound. Spain does not need to maintain the Spanish Road and this means that, unlike OTL, Spanish interest in supporting their Austrian relatives in the 30YW is purely theoretical. As a result, at the initial stage of the war Ferdinand is not getting the troops and money from Archduke Albert, ruler of the Spanish Netherlands, (and potentially may be forced to capitulate on the early stage of the war) and on a later stage the Spanish armies are not joining the imperial ones in Germany.

Then goes French position. In OTL Richelieu was subsidizing the Protestant forces with a strategic goal to break the Hapsburg encirclement of France but in ATL the problem does not exist (and the territorial issues with the Valois state are already resolved) so France can either stay in peace and concentrate on its economy or to start war with Spain over Roussillon with a potential expansion to Catalonia. If we start thinking "big", there could be a renewed attempt to conquer Milan and perhaps Genoa. But the important thing is that Austrian Hapsburgs are NOT getting Spanish military and financial help and the Protestant forces are not getting anything substantial from France, which may (or may not) make the 30YW shorter.

Later, there is no War of Devolution (Louis XIV attacking Spanish Netherlands) and it is an open question if there is an analogy of the OTL Franco-Dutch war 1672-78 more or less triggered by the Dutch position in the war of Devolution. Ditto for the later Dutch participation in various anti-French coalitions all the way to the War of the Spanish Succession. And, of course, the OTL Spanish/Austrian Netherlands (Belgium) would not be a bargaining chip in the dynastic wars.

Why would TTL Karl V have a different grandma? Any son of Charles the Rash takes precedencd over a daughter, and a marriage to Marie was the only way Friedrich was willing to cough up the crown of Burgumndy.

That said, steady the buffs as to the 30YW etc. If the Valois, -Orléans and -Orléans-Angoulême still go extinct as OTL guess who's the next in line to inherit the French throne: the surviving male line of Burgundy. Which means talking about the Austrian line of Habsburgs and Richelieu or Louis XIV and the war of the Devolution becomes null since there's no certainty that they'd even exist, much less be the same characters as OTL.
 
Why would TTL Karl V have a different grandma? Any son of Charles the Rash takes precedencd over a daughter, and a marriage to Marie was the only way Friedrich was willing to cough up the crown of Burgumndy.

Because, while there was a serious reason for "Max Empty Pockets" to marry a heiress of a very rich territory, marrying just a daughter of a Duke did not have too much of a financial sense. Later, his 2nd intended wife was Anne of Brittany (again, ruler of a big duchy). Of course, it can be argued that by his 2nd real marriage (to Bianca Maria Sforza) he only got a big dowry (400 000 ducats) but that marriage also allowed him to assert his right to the Imperial overlordship of Milan. So I'd assume that with a high probability he could chose a wife different from OTL. But this is not critical as long as the Hapsburgs are never getting the Valois Burgundy-Netherlands and as long as the rulers of this "kingdom" are never getting excessively cozy with the Hapsburgs.


That said, steady the buffs as to the 30YW etc. If the Valois, -Orléans and -Orléans-Angoulême still go extinct as OTL guess who's the next in line to inherit the French throne: the surviving male line of Burgundy.

Not if they rescind their claim as a part of a deal which makes their territory independent from France.

However, if the claim exists, then the difference starts at the time of the Wars of Religion with the details greatly depending upon the religious affiliation of the current King of the Netherlands (or whatever the title). At any rate, he is much better positioned as a candidate both by the blood and by the financial (and resulting military) might of his state. So, instead of the Bourbons of France and Navarre, there are Valois of France and Netherlands. almost as a matter of principle, they have to oppose the Hapsburgs. Which means that the 30YW is seriously different from OTL. But this line would be going against the initial premise.

Which means talking about the Austrian line of Habsburgs and Richelieu or Louis XIV and the war of the Devolution becomes null since there's no certainty that they'd even exist, much less be the same characters as OTL.

The premise was an independent state of the Burgundian Valois, so unfortunately we have to ignore all these possibilities. x'D
 
Assume that Charles, The Bold, Duke of Burgundy, is more smart than bold, and manages to successfully carve out an independent kingdom or realm for himself at the expense of France and the Holy Roman Empire in the 1470's. Assume that this state holds the territories of all the Netherlands (Northern and Southern), Artois, Luxembourg, Lorraine, Franche-Comté, Alsace, and some of the Rhineland.
My guess is that Burgundy could become a quite industrious and rich nation-state.
So, my question is: how will Burgundy deal with the upcoming ages of discovery and colonialism? What sort of colonies are they likely to get, and how will their colonial policy differ from that of OTL's Dutch Republic?

I think the biggest problem, not counting it's own internal problems, is how to deal with the fact that it's smack dab between two regions who will want their territory. France would desire the lands of Burgundy, as would some of the states within the HRE (and perhaps even the HRE himself)

Now, there are at least two ways I can see this being dealt with that make sense and seem fitting.

1- Burgundian Alliance with England- This makes strategic sense for both, as France is a long time rival and enemy of both. The aid of the English should be enough to at least in theory hold France back. However, Burgundy in this situation could become a competitor, which can post it's own problems with such an alliance.

2- Join the HRE and exert influence as a Western Austria- This could in theory protect Burgundy from the machinations of France, but draws Burgundy into the internal politics and squabbles of the HRE, and they'd be a major rival to the likes of Austria.
 
I think the biggest problem, not counting it's own internal problems, is how to deal with the fact that it's smack dab between two regions who will want their territory. France would desire the lands of Burgundy, as would some of the states within the HRE (and perhaps even the HRE himself)

Now, there are at least two ways I can see this being dealt with that make sense and seem fitting.

1- Burgundian Alliance with England- This makes strategic sense for both, as France is a long time rival and enemy of both. The aid of the English should be enough to at least in theory hold France back. However, Burgundy in this situation could become a competitor, which can post it's own problems with such an alliance.

2- Join the HRE and exert influence as a Western Austria- This could in theory protect Burgundy from the machinations of France, but draws Burgundy into the internal politics and squabbles of the HRE, and they'd be a major rival to the likes of Austria.
Many countries are smack dab between two or more neighbors who want their territory; it's what "neighbors" sometimes means.
What I don't understand about your comment is...
... well, Burgundy already WAS partly a part of France, and partly a part of the HRE. Consolidating into a powerful state of its own doesn't require formally leaving the HRE (at least not from the start). So Burgundy couldn't possibly "join" the HRE when it was already in. Or did you mean the French parts of it? That would amount to an attack on France by the HRE - I don't see that happening, not for the Duchy of Burgundy and a bit of Picardy, unless a Burgundian Valois somehow gets elected HREmperor, and even then it's a stretch of the imagination.
 
Many countries are smack dab between two or more neighbors who want their territory; it's what "neighbors" sometimes means.
What I don't understand about your comment is...
... well, Burgundy already WAS partly a part of France, and partly a part of the HRE. Consolidating into a powerful state of its own doesn't require formally leaving the HRE (at least not from the start). So Burgundy couldn't possibly "join" the HRE when it was already in. Or did you mean the French parts of it? That would amount to an attack on France by the HRE - I don't see that happening, not for the Duchy of Burgundy and a bit of Picardy, unless a Burgundian Valois somehow gets elected HREmperor, and even then it's a stretch of the imagination.

The comment makes more sense if the idea is a powerful and strong independent Burgundy, which unless I'm mistaken was the idea and point of the conversation and the OP.
 
The comment makes more sense if the idea is a powerful and strong independent Burgundy, which unless I'm mistaken was the idea and point of the conversation and the OP.
OK, I re-read the OP and it does say "independent kingdom" indeed. But becoming independent and then re-joining the HRE still doesn't make sense. With a crown from the Pope, a Burgundian-held part of the HRE could well be raised to a kingdom (there already was the Bohemian kingdom within the HRE, and much later there would be Brandenburg-Prussia).
 
OK, I re-read the OP and it does say "independent kingdom" indeed. But becoming independent and then re-joining the HRE still doesn't make sense. With a crown from the Pope, a Burgundian-held part of the HRE could well be raised to a kingdom (there already was the Bohemian kingdom within the HRE, and much later there would be Brandenburg-Prussia).

I was admittedly meaning bringing the whole of Burgundian lands into the HRE.
 
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