Bulgarian Colonial Empire

I have read and absorbed info from my other threads.
This will be different than them.


What conditions would there need to be for a Bulgarian Colonial Empire.
 
Ok well lets say the Bulgarian's have superb military strength and remain independent.What other challenges would they face?
They would need greater naval traditions, and unless you intend to confine their colonies to the Mediterranean or have them pick up scraps a-la Italy then you'd have to somehow get them to acquire atlantic ports.
 
The best bet for Bulgaria is for them to grab southern Serbia in the independence wars and then get Thrace somehow to get a port down there. They would also either have to have some Aegean islands or have, say British have a line of Aegean islands, as neither the Ottomans nor Greece would like the Bulgars all too much in this scenario. Then, if allied to a major colonial power like Britain or France, they might be gifted say, Cyrenaica, or maybe even a slice of Libya.

Very unlikely, but the best shot they have, unless they just somehow buy some Pacific or Caribbean island. And even then, they still need the southern coastline.
 

Deleted member 97083

Overland trading colonies on the Danube, then expanding through the river systems of Europe.

Make Bulgaria Volga Again.
 
Depends which Bulgaria you refer to.

First Bulgarian Empire (681-1018)
With a really early PoD the possibilities are pretty open, but even a later PoD that lets Bulgaria keep a good portion of its lands could give them the manpower to later expand east. Eventually they might set up colonies in the Caucasus and Ukraine or even Anatolia.

Second Bulgarian Empire (1185-1396)
Pretty much the same deal as the first empire, but the second empire is positioned to take advantage of the chaos in Anatolia and Greece after 1204. Maybe something can come of that. You'll want to get rid of the Ottomans and Timur though.

Kingdom of Bulgaria (1908-1946)
Maybe in a timeline where the Central Powers win WWI they could grab Greater Bulgaria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Bulgaria) from Greece, and maybe a bit of Serbia. If you wanted to you might even be able to justify giving them a chunk of Crimea to keep the Russians (imperial, republican or communist) in check. These could also happen after an Axis victory in WWII but that's a much darker and less fun timeline to think about.

People's Republic of Bulgaria (1946-1990)
Not happening. Ever. For so many reasons.

Republic of Bulgaria (1990-Now)
Umm... Bulgaria gets an Elon Musk equivalent and establishes space colonies sometime in the near future?
 
I think it's feasible for Bulgaria to gain Alaska, maybe bits of the Pacific Northwest, maybe a few Pacific Islands, although there's the long distance of Siberia to consider which will limit their effective control and potential settlement over the areas, and not to mention the threat of the Mongols. Oh wait, you mean European Bulgaria...

Bulgaria absolutely needs Greater Bulgaria to happen. This means the 1878 San Stefano borders from the start. Bulgaria then needs to beat the crap out of all other Balkan Powers (including the Turks) to gain most of Albania and Constantinople (perhaps more politically viable than letting Russia hold the place). Now you have a Bulgaria that might be able to project power, since they'd dominated the Balkans and the only goals left to achieve there is to keep their neighbours from overturning them. Unfortunately, I think that that will occupy the full attention of Bulgarian politicians and strategists, preventing them from joining the Scramble for Africa. If they did, I think Cyrenaica is the only part they might be able to get, since it's associated with Ancient (Christian) Mediterranean civilisation and is out of the way but relatively close to Bulgaria.
 
Make they grab a slice of Turkey's Black Sea coast? They could colonize it in a fashion. If they aren't driven off like the Turks did the Greeks. And even then the Greeks actually had tens of thousands of locals who could fight for them. Less so here. Maybe they get a chance at an alley in China. Something similar to Austria-Hungary's own colonial empire.
 
Make they grab a slice of Turkey's Black Sea coast? They could colonize it in a fashion. If they aren't driven off like the Turks did the Greeks. And even then the Greeks actually had tens of thousands of locals who could fight for them. Less so here.
This invites the question: what is the dividing line between a colonial and non-colonial empire? There were(and still are) ethnically Turkish regions within the territory captured by Bulgaria IOTL, after all. Would Bulgarian territory in Anatolia really be considered a "colony" just for being separated by a thin body of water?
 
This invites the question: what is the dividing line between a colonial and non-colonial empire? There were(and still are) ethnically Turkish regions within the territory captured by Bulgaria IOTL, after all. Would Bulgarian territory in Anatolia really be considered a "colony" just for being separated by a thin body of water?
Yes, the Pomoks on the borders around Thrace, as well as actual Turks in Dobruja can bring up some questions. I think people like to give the title of settler to those who occupy border areas. We might have to look at the origins of Marches and Margraves to see if they had a title for settlers in those areas.
 
Make they grab a slice of Turkey's Black Sea coast? They could colonize it in a fashion. If they aren't driven off like the Turks did the Greeks. And even then the Greeks actually had tens of thousands of locals who could fight for them. Less so here. Maybe they get a chance at an alley in China. Something similar to Austria-Hungary's own colonial empire.

The problem is they'd have to drive off both the Turks AND the Greeks to colonise Pontus. And the Bulgarians are definitely not numerous enough to colonise it. They would need those people domestically to keep the regional demographics Bulgarian. Like maybe have agree to "send" some of the many Greeks in this Bulgarian Empire back to Greece in exchange for something and give their land to ethnic Bulgarians. Internal colonisation is much more important than foreign adventures. Bulgaria can't afford to and doesn't need to settle their colonial possessions with settlers like Italy did in their empire.

I do agree a treaty port in China might be a good idea to try and get, but that would basically be a gift from another European power.

This invites the question: what is the dividing line between a colonial and non-colonial empire? There were(and still are) ethnically Turkish regions within the territory captured by Bulgaria IOTL, after all. Would Bulgarian territory in Anatolia really be considered a "colony" just for being separated by a thin body of water?

Really, if you get beyond the city limits of the Asian side of Constantinople/Istanbul/Tsarigrad, it's getting into colonialism since there are basically no Bulgarians and everyone is either a Turk or a Greek.
 
The problem is they'd have to drive off both the Turks AND the Greeks to colonise Pontus. And the Bulgarians are definitely not numerous enough to colonise it. They would need those people domestically to keep the regional demographics Bulgarian. Like maybe have agree to "send" some of the many Greeks in this Bulgarian Empire back to Greece in exchange for something and give their land to ethnic Bulgarians. Internal colonisation is much more important than foreign adventures. Bulgaria can't afford to and doesn't need to settle their colonial possessions with settlers like Italy did in their empire.
I had been thinking more of the more western portion of the Turkish northern coast. Though perhaps Pontus includes all of that as well. The word does go back several thousand years. And I agree that internal colonialism is more important. As well as getting good areas. Their trade of Dobruja for a bit of Thrace was a dud since they gave up excellent soil in exchange for some rocky area without all that decent of a port.i exepect we, with the right circumstances, get some unofficial colonies in Latin America. Basically like how immigrant groups moved into their own communities before slowly dissolving into the main culture. Of course they wouldn't call it colonialism in either case. Everyone wants to claim their own land was theres be right. Can't have it said that there was someone else before you, unless you were there before them. Not counting the settler colonies of South Africa, Australia, and the Americas. They were rather fine with it.
 
Most European groups got unofficial colonies in Latin America, some very large, hence why there's so many Venetian speakers in Rio Grande do Sul in Brazil and all sorts of German-derived languages in the Americas in general. Would that really count?
 
You would need Bulgaria to stop being a colony first, for starters, and that didn't happen until the very late 19th c., and then the 20th c. started and the fun really began.

So there really isn't a timeframe where it's feasible. It's also a really weird challenge - what would drive Bulgaria to seek colonies anyway?
 
Kingdom of Bulgaria (1908-1946)
Maybe in a timeline where the Central Powers win WWI they could grab Greater Bulgaria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Bulgaria) from Greece, and maybe a bit of Serbia. If you wanted to you might even be able to justify giving them a chunk of Crimea to keep the Russians (imperial, republican or communist) in check. These could also happen after an Axis victory in WWII but that's a much darker and less fun timeline to think about.

I'd say a victory in 1913, perhaps no Romanian intervention or even foreign support, could give them an opportunity to reach the Mediterranean without having to go through the straits
 
This invites the question: what is the dividing line between a colonial and non-colonial empire? There were(and still are) ethnically Turkish regions within the territory captured by Bulgaria IOTL, after all. Would Bulgarian territory in Anatolia really be considered a "colony" just for being separated by a thin body of water?

Yes. We consider Siberia and Central Asia to be colonies of the Russian Empire despite being connected by land to European Russia, after all.
 
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