Bulgaria Joins Entente, no gallipoli

gurgu

Banned
So my pod is basically a Bulgarian government deciding to join the entente to regain adrianople lost to the Turks , following the desire of it's people to not fight anymore against the other orthodox fellows.
Since Bulgaria has Alexandruopoli, the entente can just land with it's army and go straight on costantinople while the bulgarian army (600k full mobilization) was split and sent 1 toward serbia in help and 1 toward costantinople.
With this scenario greece would stay neutral since it's surrounded from entente members and would be alone while romania is an incognita: not enought romanian population in both bulgaria and serbia and might even risk to loose all dobruja area due to it's mainly bulgarian population

how would go TTL? ottomans may collapse way sooner and war ends earlier; how would be the new Versailles treaties?
 
So my pod is basically a Bulgarian government deciding to join the entente to regain adrianople lost to the Turks , following the desire of it's people to not fight anymore against the other orthodox fellows.
Since Bulgaria has Alexandruopoli, the entente can just land with it's army and go straight on costantinople while the bulgarian army (600k full mobilization) was split and sent 1 toward serbia in help and 1 toward costantinople.
With this scenario greece would stay neutral since it's surrounded from entente members and would be alone while romania is an incognita: not enought romanian population in both bulgaria and serbia and might even risk to loose all dobruja area due to it's mainly bulgarian population

how would go TTL? ottomans may collapse way sooner and war ends earlier; how would be the new Versailles treaties?
Other than that Bulgaria would not risk a front against the Ottomans unless they are dead certain that the Ottomans are losing. Besides... Gallipoli sounds easier in theory as the occupation of the peninsula offers secured Naval advance while the peninsula is a beachhead for supplies and soldiers. It was a quick way to get the Ottomans out of the war. Landing troops in Bulgaria had no advantage for the navy and will last longer than necessary (again, nobody expected the Gallipoli campaign to last that long as they underestimated the Ottomans).

I'd see it like this... the Gallipoli campaign happens regardless and the Bulgarians try a quick attack, hoping to regain most of Eastern Thrace. This would mean the Ottoman Army is trapped in Gallipoli in best case and the Bulgarians just have to hold as long as possible near Catalca (The Russians refusing to allow Bulgaria to have Constantinople or any part accessing the Sea of Marmara...)
 

gurgu

Banned
Other than that Bulgaria would not risk a front against the Ottomans unless they are dead certain that the Ottomans are losing. Besides... Gallipoli sounds easier in theory as the occupation of the peninsula offers secured Naval advance while the peninsula is a beachhead for supplies and soldiers. It was a quick way to get the Ottomans out of the war. Landing troops in Bulgaria had no advantage for the navy and will last longer than necessary (again, nobody expected the Gallipoli campaign to last that long as they underestimated the Ottomans).

I'd see it like this... the Gallipoli campaign happens regardless and the Bulgarians try a quick attack, hoping to regain most of Eastern Thrace. This would mean the Ottoman Army is trapped in Gallipoli in best case and the Bulgarians just have to hold as long as possible near Catalca (The Russians refusing to allow Bulgaria to have Constantinople or any part accessing the Sea of Marmara...)
So how about this:
Gallipoli starts, the ottmans resist as OTL BUT the entente instead of start losing confidence ask to bulgaria to join promising them Adrianople and the previous chatalja line border. Bulgaria is still not satisfied from the offer so the allies promise a revision of the macedonian question IF serbia gains territories after the war, Ferdinand I at this point accepts the offer and mobilitize etc.

deal?
 
So how about this:
Gallipoli starts, the ottmans resist as OTL BUT the entente instead of start losing confidence ask to bulgaria to join promising them Adrianople and the previous chatalja line border. Bulgaria is still not satisfied from the offer so the allies promise a revision of the macedonian question IF serbia gains territories after the war, Ferdinand I at this point accepts the offer and mobilitize etc.

deal?
Sounds fair. Not that Bulgaria is guaranteed to get Macedonia entirely anyway as the Entente made false promises more often anyway :/
 

gurgu

Banned
Sounds fair. Not that Bulgaria is guaranteed to get Macedonia entirely anyway as the Entente made false promises more often anyway :/
exactly! but the main problem is that they weren't giving false promises but they were making secret deals, when wilson entered the war, at the peace conference he declared null all secret deals SO if the war ends a bit before the USA could join the fight Italy would not have revanchism, yugoslavia still formed without dalmatia/fiume and bulgaria take almost the pre second Balkan war asset.
without the " vittoria mutilata"( mutilated victory) mussolini won't take enough support to make a coup and italy would stay as monarchy neutral in ww2 or become commie and join the comitern( worst scenario)
 
The Russians were willing to bully Serbia into ceding the bits of Macedonia that the Bulgarians were supposed to get anyway if Bulgaria joined the war on the Entente side.

upload_2019-6-7_11-6-45.jpeg


Meanwhile, Greece was already contemplating ceding Kavala to Bulgaria and making the eastern boundary the Struma.


Southern Macedonia + Kavala + East Thrace + maybe bullying Romania into returning Silistra could be enough to goad the Bulgarians into the Entente.


upload_2019-6-7_11-13-14.png
 
The Russians were willing to bully Serbia into ceding the bits of Macedonia that the Bulgarians were supposed to get anyway if Bulgaria joined the war on the Entente side.

View attachment 464195

Meanwhile, Greece was already contemplating ceding Kavala to Bulgaria and making the eastern boundary the Struma.


Southern Macedonia + Kavala + East Thrace + maybe bullying Romania into returning Silistra could be enough to goad the Bulgarians into the Entente.


View attachment 464196
Eastern Thrace minus the Sea of Marmara Coast. Russia will want secure Sea access. Considering Russia threatened Bulgaria more often than once since 1878 it is going to be an issue.
 

gurgu

Banned
Eastern Thrace minus the Sea of Marmara Coast. Russia will want secure Sea access. Considering Russia threatened Bulgaria more often than once since 1878 it is going to be an issue.
Russia was already having a hard time, so Bulgaria might even agree to no touch Constantinople and join the entente. Doing so would rehabilitate it's diplomacy around European nations and repair relation with Serbia( also a war of Slav brother fighting against Austria scum sounds better that kill your Slav brother as OTL).
Regaining prestige would mean that if russia goes down( which i think would happen anyway) everyone would agree to gie Bulgaria Costantinople rather then leaving it to commie soviets
 
Greece and Romania would still be likely to join the Entente. The Greeks still want the Smyrna region and the Romanians want Transylvania, and Bulgaria will be claiming neither of these. I think Romania might be willing to exchange southern Dobruja for Transylvania. And an Entente Bulgaria will make the Entente's position in the region stronger which will encourage Romania and Greece to join.
 

gurgu

Banned
Greece and Romania would still be likely to join the Entente. The Greeks still want the Smyrna region and the Romanians want Transylvania, and Bulgaria will be claiming neither of these. I think Romania might be willing to exchange southern Dobruja for Transylvania. And an Entente Bulgaria will make the Entente's position in the region stronger which will encourage Romania and Greece to join.
Romania yes, greece no.
The greeks were more pro cp than Bulgaria in the beginning but having a very weak army and small fleet made forced them o stay neutral and make happy the entente giving access. When Bulgaria joined the cp in 1915 greeks saw the opportunity to claim the Bulgarian Aegean coast and then even Constantinople which made them por-entente and then jump in in late 1917 when Bulgaria was near surrender and take land for doing nothing.
ITTL if Bulgaria is in the entente they have no claims in the Balkans but only Smirne which might not be enough to convince the government to abandon neutrality, also Constantinople is not claimable since doesn't even border it. More likely only Romania would join the entente and give back southern dobruja to Bulgaria for Transylvania
 
Russia was already having a hard time, so Bulgaria might even agree to no touch Constantinople and join the entente. Doing so would rehabilitate it's diplomacy around European nations and repair relation with Serbia( also a war of Slav brother fighting against Austria scum sounds better that kill your Slav brother as OTL).
Regaining prestige would mean that if russia goes down( which i think would happen anyway) everyone would agree to gie Bulgaria Costantinople rather then leaving it to commie soviets
This is problematic when only a year ago Serbia, a Slavic country, fought with non-Slavic countries against fellow South Slavic Bulgaria. Unless Serbia makes offers, at least half of Macedonia (probably no helping Greece either) Bulgaria won't lift a finger. Not even for Russia. Which was the right thing to do so.
 

gurgu

Banned
This is problematic when only a year ago Serbia, a Slavic country, fought with non-Slavic countries against fellow South Slavic Bulgaria. Unless Serbia makes offers, at least half of Macedonia (probably no helping Greece either) Bulgaria won't lift a finger. Not even for Russia. Which was the right thing to do so.
Serbia wasn't dead yet only thanks to Russia in the great war. Russia pressuring for giving half macedonia do Bulgaria seems pretty reasonable if by giving a land of 500k citizens you receive the double in troops as help( Bulgaria in 1916 had mobilized 1 mln and 200 people for the war, let's say they put 300k on Turkish front and the other 900k in help of Serbia).
 
Serbia wasn't dead yet only thanks to Russia in the great war. Russia pressuring for giving half macedonia do Bulgaria seems pretty reasonable if by giving a land of 500k citizens you receive the double in troops as help( Bulgaria in 1916 had mobilized 1 mln and 200 people for the war, let's say they put 300k on Turkish front and the other 900k in help of Serbia).
300k on the Turkish front is way too low tbf. Considering Turkey can bring up more. I think 700-500k would be split better.
 

gurgu

Banned
300k on the Turkish front is way too low tbf. Considering Turkey can bring up more. I think 700-500k would be split better.
i though 300k maybe 400k is enough because as soon Bulgaria joins the entente Britain and France would send troops in order to take down Constantinople and avoid Bulgaria to take for itself the city( claimed)
 
i though 300k maybe 400k is enough because as soon Bulgaria joins the entente Britain and France would send troops in order to take down Constantinople and avoid Bulgaria to take for itself the city( claimed)
That is if the Entente succeeds. If they don't Bulgaria needs to redirect forces which is too low to enforce something. It does not need Constantinople but it needs distraction.
 

gurgu

Banned
That is if the Entente succeeds. If they don't Bulgaria needs to redirect forces which is too low to enforce something. It does not need Constantinople but it needs distraction.
how can they fail? i mean they don't need anymore to do gallipoli but just land troops in alexandropolis
 
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