Building a Hard Sci-Fi Universe

So... let's do this! Let's make a whole science fiction setting. The main baseline to work with is that all proposals must be based on current scientific theories, or be at least not *impossible*. I have seen some quite good proposals on the poll thread, so let's see what we can cook up.

While Hard Sci-fi seems to have won this poll, all suggestions are welcome! Just because it's scientifically accurate doesn't mean we cannot insert Space Opera tropes into the mix.

Now, my suggestion is that first of all, we should define the Scale of the setting. If we choose to have FTL (which is pretty much the sine qua non of science fiction), I recommend we'd be very careful of all the implications, possibilities and limitations of our FTL system. Here's an initial proposal, I would love to hear others.

Scale: Over a hundred systems connected by wormholes. Some parallel networks barely explored (some with less half a dozen systems). Many other colonized systems in between, only reachable by STL ships.

Timeframe:
From the 2050s to the 2600s (for less messing around with RL politics)

Method of travelling:
Artificial, very expensive wormhole gates, located orbiting stars (as far as from planetary orbits as possible). Early on, the main method is STL ships: they are still used in many cases.
 
Scale: Over a hundred systems connected by wormholes. Some parallel networks barely explored (some with less half a dozen systems). Many other colonized systems in between, only reachable by STL ships.

Timeframe:
From the 2050s to the 2600s (for less messing around with RL politics)
The scale sounds about right for the initial start, I'm assuming the "now" is in the 2600s which we won't continue beyond for now.

We should start laying down some kind of a rudimentary timeline. I think humanity should still be quite divided, but they have almost always come together against any outside threats. 600+ years is a lot of time, so there ought to have been multiple different periods on Earth.

As for FTL, maybe it's something that requires some incredibly funky and technically almost impossible feats, which we won't be seeing anytime soon.
 
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Darn. Thought you were going to use the Almburcurie drive. Realy sure I did not spell that right.

It's 'Alcubierre'; but yes, it's pretty sad we won't get to see faster than light travel here (although I don't believe an Alcubierre drive would be able to be constructed anyway).
 
How do the wormholes work, specifically?

1. Are they dependent on natural phenomena or can be built almost anywhere at himan's will?
2. Is there a unified standard of wormhole travelling, either by regulation or natural properties, or are there several incompatible standards?
3. Is a big wormhole significantly harder to construct/maintain than a small one, not much, same, or the opposite?
4. Are connections one to one, one to certain others or one to any? Can human switch the destination(s)? Can human decide the destination(s) when constructing it?
5. Do ships need special equipments to travel through a worm hole? If we broadcast a signal through a wormhole, what would happen?
6. Can they be destroyed once in place?
 
It's 'Alcubierre'; but yes, it's pretty sad we won't get to see faster than light travel here (although I don't believe an Alcubierre drive would be able to be constructed anyway).

It's an interesting concept. Reminds me of the way Mass Effect does FTL.
 
First of all, I'm not opposed to an Alcubierre Drive. There are some problems with the concept, but if we can plausible handwave them, it would remain possible enough. It would make for a more fluid setting, depending on how difficult is to make the drive and mantain it. In fact, I would expect those ships to be complicated and somewhat dangerous, owned only by government organizations and crewed by the best of the best. The crew would have to be trained in both science and military matters, since these ships would be used for many missions, to strange new worlds. And the missions would be long, maybe 5 year lon-

Oh crap, I just invented Star Trek, didn't I? :p

The scale sounds about right for the initial start, I'm assuming the "now" is in the 2600s which we won't continue beyond for now.

We should start laying down some kind of a rudimentary timeline. I think humanity should still be quite divided, but they have almost always come together against any outside threats. 600+ years is a lot of time, so there ought to have been multiple different periods on Earth.

As for FTL, maybe it's something that requires some incredibly funky and technically almost impossible feats, which we won't be seeing anytime soon.

Yes, I'm thinking of setting the TL in a fixed year, and web it from there.

Some thoughts on future politics:

1: If we go with an artificial, expensive, wormhole network, the organizations that maintain/build it would be the most powerful in existance, governing interstellar matters. Inside a solar system, however, things would be pretty different. There's lots of space for colonies, nations, struggles and trade
2: Nationalism probably won't go away anytime soon. The Greeks for example lived centuries under the Ottoman Empire, yet retained their national identity. Nations will change, and most probably the Nation-State system will fall, but many nations would remain by the year 2600.
3: Space colonies, except those located in terraformed/livable worlds, would be very autonomous and self-sufficent, if they are permanent. Safe shipping, however, would be desirable by most of them, since they cannot produce all goods (luxury items, for example). And also, they would have a strong sense of community inside the colony: see one post I made in other thread:

If colonies get established by diferent cultural divisions, I'll expect that they'll keep their traditions very rigid unless the colony suffers some inestability. Even without any cultural divisions, space colonies will be self-contained, remote and isolated enviroments by the most part; both in supplies, techonology, division of work, and even communication. They'll foster a sense of cooperation and 'we all know each other here'. After all, if people dislike each other, or try to sabotage the colony, or don't maintain it properly, everyone dies. Space is harsh like that: either everybody maintains the colony and works for all, or it fails. This fosters a strong sense of community and belonging. It also, unfortunately, I believe, will foster a distrust of the other, by the simple reason that the people of your colony are the most important people, and are the only ones you know well. I'll leave the implications of such a culture (or rather cultures) to you.
How do the wormholes work, specifically?

1. Are they dependent on natural phenomena or can be built almost anywhere at himan's will?
2. Is there a unified standard of wormhole travelling, either by regulation or natural properties, or are there several incompatible standards?
3. Is a big wormhole significantly harder to construct/maintain than a small one, not much, same, or the opposite?
4. Are connections one to one, one to certain others or one to any? Can human switch the destination(s)? Can human decide the destination(s) when constructing it?
5. Do ships need special equipments to travel through a worm hole? If we broadcast a signal through a wormhole, what would happen?
6. Can they be destroyed once in place?

That's what I'm talking about! We need to establish some parameters. Let's see (keep in mind that this is my own idea, and I'm open to proposals)

1: They are not dependent on natural phenomena (though we could stablish some range, based on the energy used to open it)
2: To keep things simple and prevent paradoxes, there is one unified standard.
3: I would say it's only more difficult to maintain... but I might be wrong. Let's put that on hold while we do more research.
4: They are one to one, and humans can decide the destination (or rather, computers. I would think the calculations are beyond the ken of a single human)
5: I would imagine the ships would need some modifications for the gravitational and radiation stresses of a wormhole. And yes, signals could be sent (in fact, wormholes would be the only way of interstellar comunication)
6: Probably it wouldn't be pretty.

Also, a wormhole network, as I said in the previous thread, would be easy to map. Just think a metro map, with solar systems as stations.
 
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First of all, I'm not opposed to an Alcubierre Drive. There are some problems with the concept, but if we can plausible handwave them, it would remain possible enough. It would make for a more fluid setting, depending on how difficult is to make the drive and mantain it. In fact, I would expect those ships to be complicated and somewhat dangerous, owned only by government organizations and crewed by the best of the best. The crew would have to be trained in both science and military matters, since these ships would be used for many missions, to strange new worlds. And the missions would be long, maybe 5 year lon-

Oh crap, I just invented Star Trek, didn't I? :p
This sounds spot on for what I had in mind, they're so ludicrously expensive and risky investements that even the richest nations and corporations would only have a handful. Let's say the drive requires some exotic and artificial matter as a component that takes ridiculous amounts of energy to produce. I'd imagine they'd also be the vanguard that would drive the slow expansion of the gate system.
 
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This sounds spot on for what I had in mind, they're so ludicrously expensive and risky investements that even the richest nations and corporations would only have a handful. Let's say the drive requires some exotic and artificial matter as a component that takes ridiculous amounts of energy to produce. I'd imagine they'd also be the vanguard that would drive the slow expansion of the gate system.

Then, instead of the Enterprise, or tramp freighthers, I would assume each ship would be giant, carrying minor craft for other missions, and capable of playing multiple roles by itself: transport, carrier, warship, colonizer, explorer, etc.

Interstellar colonies would be quite roughed and autonmous, but at the same time depending on regular patrols/supply drops from those ships.
Power would be measured on how many of these ships can you maintain. They could be compared to weapons of mass destruction, politically. In fact, they WOULD be WMD, since a ship of that size exploding, crashing, or doing a funky FTL quantum thingy could very well end civilization on a planet.

There would be no private (or at least what we consider private) interstellar travel, and no Millenium Falcons or Serenities flying around. Inside solar systems... well that's another matter.

As for gates and warp... I'll prefer if we stick to one type of FTL. Or else things can get veryyyy confusing.
 
alright, lets chime in on the whole thing, shall we. I would like to participate in this. So, my comments are in bold


First of all, I'm not opposed to an Alcubierre Drive. There are some problems with the concept, but if we can plausible handwave them, it would remain possible enough. It would make for a more fluid setting, depending on how difficult is to make the drive and mantain it. In fact, I would expect those ships to be complicated and somewhat dangerous, owned only by government organizations and crewed by the best of the best. The crew would have to be trained in both science and military matters, since these ships would be used for many missions, to strange new worlds. And the missions would be long, maybe 5 year lon-

Oh crap, I just invented Star Trek, didn't I? :p



Yes, I'm thinking of setting the TL in a fixed year, and web it from there.

Some thoughts on future politics:

1: If we go with an artificial, expensive, wormhole network, the organizations that maintain/build it would be the most powerful in existance, governing interstellar matters. Inside a solar system, however, things would be pretty different. There's lots of space for colonies, nations, struggles and trade

Yeah, but somehow I don't think said organization will be really... inclusive. I imagine that it will include the richest nations/states/races and the rest will be... well, not happy about it.

2: Nationalism probably won't go away anytime soon. The Greeks for example lived centuries under the Ottoman Empire, yet retained their national identity. Nations will change, and most probably the Nation-State system will fall, but many nations would remain by the year 2600.

Definitely agree, I had this idea of Transnationalism that more or less takes the place of the nation-state, based more on regional and pan-national identities then a national/ethnic one. For example a Federal Europe with at least the original 27 states in it which is made up of sub-entities, a Balkan Federation made out of the Slavic Balkan states, a Franco-German Union that drives the whole thing, a Scandinavian Organization and so on and so forth. With the development of globalism it is not weird to argue that these systems may exist especially considering that they are a good way to both keep regional nationalists satisfied and globalists happy. One can imagine the solar system being a constant battleground of these transnational entities that are constantly funding different movements and absorbing or loosing "member-states".

3: Space colonies, except those located in terraformed/livable worlds, would be very autonomous and self-sufficent, if they are permanent. Safe shipping, however, would be desirable by most of them, since they cannot produce all goods (luxury items, for example). And also, they would have a strong sense of community inside the colony: see one post I made in other thread:

This could easily mean that the Transnats that I mentioned earlier could be battleing not on earth, but in space, not via open warfare on the blue planet, but by subterfuge and sabotage, like a cold war that spans many worlds and colonies. And ultimately, the politics of the Transnats could be what fuels the war between colonies and worlds, and maybe even human development, as war breeds creativity, at least in humans.

Sadly I don't have anything to add to the discussion about wormholes, but I would like to raise the topic of the alien spacies, because I would love to see what other people come up with. My two cents are, that we should forget humanoids, the shape, form and movement of a humanoid in my mind are almost impossible to replicated via evolution on everywhere that is not earth.

I could be totally and absolutely wrong, but rubber-headed aliens really made me cringe for a while. As an example, let me provide you with a race of my creation that I used in some of my works, because they are my babies and I will be happy to see them in this universe. I can go into detail about their biology and social structure, but Ill make it short for now.

The Straal: They came into existence because their world has a weak metallic core, allowing greater levels of radiation to pierce the atmosphere, so much so, that life on the planet developed to consume said radiation. Which gave the species unprecedented level of energy, the Straal begun their evolutionary path as fungi growing on the sides of the pools of primordial soup. Eventually out of said fungi many species sprang. While the fungi that evolved into the Straal could leave on the radiation alone, the predators hunting said fungi, forced the creature to evolve first armor (drawing metals form the soil to form a metallic exoskeleton) eventually forcing them to evolve movement. With the predators evolving ever faster and bigger, the Straal developed intelligence to counter that. Using the massive amounts of static electricity developed by the metallic exoskeleton while moving, they developed a way of communicating between each-other by sending burst of electricity to each-other transmitting information quickly. This electricity also gave them their vision, as they extended a weak 360 electric field around themselves, detecting everything that entered that field.

So basically you got giant, metallic, blind, unable to speak, intelligent creatures that are probably utterly incomprehensible to other species culturally. I imagined that the as the time progressed and other creatures learned how to communicate to the Straal, a "language" of rubbing the metallic armor to screech specific sounds will probably be developed. But one would imagine such a thing hard to achieve.
 
Then, instead of the Enterprise, or tramp freighthers, I would assume each ship would be giant, carrying minor craft for other missions, and capable of playing multiple roles by itself: transport, carrier, warship, colonizer, explorer, etc.

Interstellar colonies would be quite roughed and autonmous, but at the same time depending on regular patrols/supply drops from those ships.
Power would be measured on how many of these ships can you maintain. They could be compared to weapons of mass destruction, politically. In fact, they WOULD be WMD, since a ship of that size exploding, crashing, or doing a funky FTL quantum thingy could very well end civilization on a planet.

There would be no private (or at least what we consider private) interstellar travel, and no Millenium Falcons or Serenities flying around. Inside solar systems... well that's another matter.

This is great, a legit reason to have massive super dreadnoughts going around. Actually committing them to combat would be a massive risk though, you'd have to be absolutely sure there is no risk of losing one.

Well, since we have the gate network, the interstellar private sector would eventually start blooming.

Which one do the Humans figure out first? If the FTL drive, I'd say Earth should be limited to one or two past-prototype stage engines for a long time, which drives them to create the first gates.
 
This is great, a legit reason to have massive super dreadnoughts going around. Actually committing them to combat would be a massive risk though, you'd have to be absolutely sure there is no risk of losing one.

Well, since we have the gate network, the interstellar private sector would eventually start blooming.

Which one do the Humans figure out? If the FTL drive, I'd say Earth should be limited to one or two past-prototype stage engines for a long time, which drives them to create the first gates.

I was walking today and I thought about a little colonization TL with gates (does not include warp ships)

2050s-2100: Initial space colonization, development of new technologies on Earth.
2100-2200: Space colonization gets cheaper with space elevators and other structures. First STL colonization efforts by the end of the century (think Apollo Program in expenses and prestige)
2200-2300: By the end of the century the first gates are opened between the early colonies.
2300-2400: Conditions on Sol promote interstellar colonization, the beggining of an interstellar network appears.
2400-2500: Colonization slows down. All major systems are linked.
2500-2600: Interstellar population exceeds that of Sol. Current era.
 
We need to decide how many other actually livable worlds there are in the network (as opposed to artificial habitats) since that is where the people are presumably, and then how many intelligent aliens have been encountered. I would say having maybe 1 or 2 known alien races seems more logical than a higher number, simply based on amount of planets in the network, and also this could give a "first contact"-y vibe.
 
We need to decide how many other actually livable worlds there are in the network (as opposed to artificial habitats) since that is where the people are presumably, and then how many intelligent aliens have been encountered. I would say having maybe 1 or 2 known alien races seems more logical than a higher number, simply based on amount of planets in the network, and also this could give a "first contact"-y vibe.

This site is awesome for that. Not only it lists stars near to us, it especifically deals with their possible habitability and exoplanets. Pure awesome.

Habitable and terraformed planets would be in high demand, as I imagine most people would be tired of seeing the same lifeless rocks. Orbitals might be quite comfy, but many would yearn for open spaces, even if out of pride of owning land or traditionalism.

As for aliens, I'm sure we'll include them since many people want them. For my part, I think an universe with humans/terran life forms can get quite alien enough with AIs and biotech. HOWEVER, here are some ideas for aliens.

-Primitive aliens who live in the equivalent of hunter-gatherer state are *common*, say 4 or 5 in the wormhole network. Debates about whetever to integrate them into civilization or keep them in their unspoilt state rage around. They are of course completely different from humans or terran life.
-Obviously, there are lots of biochemistry to experiment with. Icy moons of gas giants are speculated to have life. There is one Earth in our solar system, but then there's Titan, Europa, Enceladus, Callisto and countless others... who says that maybe icy life is the most common form of life in the universe?
-Very, VERY advanced aliens beyond our ken. We learned of their existance by radio communications, that are cryptic at best, but we know that their wormhole network is at least a thousand times larger than ours, and their civilization includes several races. We are centuries away from physical contact, but there's a lot of repercurssions everytime we get a message from them.

If is going to be a hard scfi universe it shouldn't have FTL at all.

But muh space :(

We could make the setting on the Solar System with STL colonies as a far thought, or a millenial setting where humans spread out without FTL... but... I'd say we allow FTL as long as it is well thought out and plausible (I mean, wormholes are real, according to relativity) Interstellar travel just has that thing... you know, visiting other worlds and going back to Earth with pictures.

alright, lets chime in on the whole thing, shall we. I would like to participate in this. So, my comments are in bold




Sadly I don't have anything to add to the discussion about wormholes, but I would like to raise the topic of the alien spacies, because I would love to see what other people come up with. My two cents are, that we should forget humanoids, the shape, form and movement of a humanoid in my mind are almost impossible to replicated via evolution on everywhere that is not earth.

I could be totally and absolutely wrong, but rubber-headed aliens really made me cringe for a while. As an example, let me provide you with a race of my creation that I used in some of my works, because they are my babies and I will be happy to see them in this universe. I can go into detail about their biology and social structure, but Ill make it short for now.

The Straal: They came into existence because their world has a weak metallic core, allowing greater levels of radiation to pierce the atmosphere, so much so, that life on the planet developed to consume said radiation. Which gave the species unprecedented level of energy, the Straal begun their evolutionary path as fungi growing on the sides of the pools of primordial soup. Eventually out of said fungi many species sprang. While the fungi that evolved into the Straal could leave on the radiation alone, the predators hunting said fungi, forced the creature to evolve first armor (drawing metals form the soil to form a metallic exoskeleton) eventually forcing them to evolve movement. With the predators evolving ever faster and bigger, the Straal developed intelligence to counter that. Using the massive amounts of static electricity developed by the metallic exoskeleton while moving, they developed a way of communicating between each-other by sending burst of electricity to each-other transmitting information quickly. This electricity also gave them their vision, as they extended a weak 360 electric field around themselves, detecting everything that entered that field.

So basically you got giant, metallic, blind, unable to speak, intelligent creatures that are probably utterly incomprehensible to other species culturally. I imagined that the as the time progressed and other creatures learned how to communicate to the Straal, a "language" of rubbing the metallic armor to screech specific sounds will probably be developed. But one would imagine such a thing hard to achieve.

The idea about the transnats is nice, but I thing people would shy away about anything called that. They would probably be camuflaged as other institutions. Other than that, I'm liking the idea. As for gate sharing... there would be pressure no doubt, and I imagine there might be concessions. But even so, whoever first build would still remain powerful institutions.

I'm loving the aliens BTW. And I agree with you, wierd forehead aliens are too cliché.
 
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Lateknight

Banned
Well if we wouldn't have any FTL, how fast would we have sublight engines going?
I think could away with the engines going half light speed.

But muh space :(

We could make the setting on the Solar System with STL colonies as a far thought, or a millenial setting where humans spread out without FTL... but... I'd say we allow FTL as long as it is well thought out and plausible (I mean, wormholes are real, according to relativity) Interstellar travel just has that thing... you know, visiting other worlds and going back to Earth with pictures.

Even if you had a craft that can survive entering a wormhole how would it escape the gravity well on the other side?
 
Development

The first wormholes were small and could only be kept open for a small amount of time. Just enough to shoot a probe through to survey the system. The probe could then send results back (quantum entanglement/handwavium). Eventually a ship could be sent but to enlarge the hole requires massive amounts of power, as in Anti-matter levels. The wormhole ports are located away from lots of civilization in case something goes boom.

The ports are autonomous and become the centers of commerce and communication between systems. They can mine helium from gas giants and resources from asteroids. Eventually they become part of a trading network.
 
Some free technobabble:

Wormholes

Wormholes are a specific type of microscopic black hole discovered in 2049 when the MBLHC particle accelerator started its multi TeV operations. They were an entirely unexpected discovery, though similar topographic solutions had been (mathematically) "found" in one or two obscure theories, they were considered to be a mathematical problem to fix later rather than something actually existing in physical reality. In fact few expected the "desert", the region between the great LHC-level discoveries such as the Higgs boson and grand unification energies to yield much of anything.

Developing the process of capturing the tiny wormhole pair, storing and then spinning them up so as to make them meso scale and thereby transversible, were mankind's perhaps greatest achievement of that age.

-+ wormholes

Wormholes of the "-+" variety are only vaguely phenomenologically related to macroscopic black holes, notably the spacetime distortion of the latter are understood to be solely gravitational, while this isn't the case of the former, which doesn't have a strong gravitational field and operates on a different metric.

Wormhole mechanics

The size of the mouths of a wormhole depends on the (rotational) energy imparted into the original bisingularity. Typically, a microscopic wormhole is transported via light-hugger ships to a destination, the hole is then spun up enough so that material can be delivered through it to build a wormhole cradle, and the hole is then spun up further to allow for larger scale traffic. Due to the link between the mouths, both of the mouths are spun up and expand at the same rate when rotational energy is added at one end.

A finished wormhole in its cradle looks basically like a funnel, the opening typically distorted in a complex, reflective pattern known as the "pool". To a ship entering the wormhole, it appears to be a tunnel of uniform thickness, leading out into another part of space. Besides the few kilometers at most typically making up a wormhole mouth, wormhole transits take effectively no time.

The limiting factor in producing a transversible wormhole isn't the energy involved in producing nor capturing the seed-pair (though the capture is technologically challenging), nor is it the huge amounts of rather exotic materials used in building the hole cradle. Instead, the energy needed to spin up the hole is the real bottleneck.

When mankind began built it first transversible wormhole back in 2105 (opening 2118) mankind's total industrial energy expenditure as a race was 2*10^14 W. It took a decade long, massive effort to expand the sub-Mercurial solar power satellite stations in order to supply the 2,5*10^22 J needed to spin up the Mars-Jupiter transit hole.

Fast facts - did You know?


Wormhole spin-up energies scale linearly, ten times more input energy = ten times larger diameter, where 1m requires 1,6*10^21 J

Wormholes were once though to be able to link not only space, but time. This was quickly disproved in practicality, though it took until the theories of Jan-Erik Obune'To in 2119 to explain why this doesn't happen.

Wormholes were once considered as a possible power-transfer device, as the spin-up of the two wormhole mouths always match, allowing, in theory, the transfer of energy. In reality, due to the Loof-Zhang effect acceleration of a wormhole mouth while spun-up to any more than a minuscule diameter (and thereby power transfer rate) is very, very dangerous as the hole is destabilized.

Wormholes when spun up are always found in L4 or L5 Lagrange points, or at a distance of more than 37 astronomical units from star-massed objects. This is because wormholes can be destabilized by gravitational gradients or accelerations. What would happen is that the o-field would begin to wobble, chaotically slicing through the cradle, which then leads to the cradle being destroyed, which leads to the wormhole mouth reaching a super-coiled state, whereupon it after short while "evaporates", releasing all its spun-up energy in a massive explosion. This is why placing a wormhole-station in a planet-moon Lagrange point is a really really bad idea, as is of course having only one wormhole in a given system.

The sensitivity to such gradients and/or accelerations are strongly related to the spun-up size of the hole, thereby necessitating wormholes to be transported to the desired location before the spin-up and cradling procedure can begin.

Orbital mechanics and wormholes

Unexpectedly, physicists quickly found that wormholes seemingly ignores the laws of momentum, meaning that entering a wormhole and exiting at a wormhole in orbit around a star moving towards the first wormhole will not lead to the spacecraft emerging at said stellar velocity, but instead at which ever velocity it had when it entered the other mouth. Such a transit will, however, lead to energy being added to the spin of the wormhole, as well as a gravitational wave being released which (to a minuscule degree, of course), slows the exit-point star down. The exact same thing happens between planetary bodies if the transit happens withing a system, the opposite (the wormhole losing energy) happens if a spacecraft (e.a "mass") is moved via wormhole to a star moving away from the starting point.

----


Do with it was you like, this is my old attempt at creating a "FTL system" that can stay in the background and don't lead to plot convolution the way time travel or Jupiter mass equivalents in energy might.
 
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