Bronze Age ""ROME""

[DuQuense]

If Iron is never Invented [slightly ASB- but not the point, ] ?Will whe still get a ""Roman Empire""?.
IE A large Mediterranean Empire that controls all of southern Europe, and large parts of Western Europe.
If not ?what would take it's place?

 

[The Sicilian]

If Iron is never Invented [slightly ASB- but not the point, ] ?Will whe still get a ""Roman Empire""?.
IE A large Mediterranean Empire that controls all of southern Europe, and large parts of Western Europe.
If not ?what would take it's place?

How is iron not invented? is it not present on Earth? To function normally, a human needs an amount of iron (the specific use that comes to mind is hemoglobin)

 

[robertp6165]

How is iron not invented? is it not present on Earth? To function normally, a human needs an amount of iron (the specific use that comes to mind is hemoglobin)

Well, we could assume a little handwavium and say that, for whatever reason, iron melts at a higher temperature than could be achieved by ancient man. This would keep iron-working from being invented, at least not in ancient times, while still allowing humans to get the iron needed in their diets.

 

[robertp6165]

If Iron is never Invented [slightly ASB- but not the point, ] ?Will whe still get a ""Roman Empire""?.
IE A large Mediterranean Empire that controls all of southern Europe, and large parts of Western Europe.
If not ?what would take it's place?

I would say it's possible that we still get an equivalent of a Roman Empire, but it's going to be more difficult. Here's why...

If you don't have iron, basically you are stuck in the Bronze Age. The problem with bronze, at least in ancient times, was that it was VERY expensive. This severely limits the size of the armies you can equip.

The Roman Empire was able to expand as it did because it had huge reserves of manpower, and was able to equip that manpower for military use. A Bronze Age Rome is going to find that much more difficult to achieve. Not impossible, but very, very difficult.

 

[arctic warrior]

I would say it's possible that we still get an equivalent of a Roman Empire, but it's going to be more difficult. Here's why...

If you don't have iron, basically you are stuck in the Bronze Age. The problem with bronze, at least in ancient times, was that it was VERY expensive. This severely limits the size of the armies you can equip.

The Roman Empire was able to expand as it did because it had huge reserves of manpower, and was able to equip that manpower for military use. A Bronze Age Rome is going to find that much more difficult to achieve. Not impossible, but very, very difficult.

Wouldn't this limit armies to be kind like pre-colombian ones basically armed with stone-age weapons and only officers and guards units armed with bronze weapons?
Even at this tech level the Inca's managed to raise rather large armies.

 

[Typo]

Bronze age armies are still far superior to those.


​

 

[arctic warrior]

Bronze age armies are still far superior to those.​

Yes, yes - but as bronze is expensive you'd have some way in making LARGE armies like Rome.
Things like shields would not be made of bronze, wooden ones fitted with cooked leather are much stronger.

 

[Broz]

this poses no problem to empire building, if noone has iron weaponry then evrione is on the same level, in terms of armament, and must atempt to win by using superior skill, strategy, organisation, quantity or quality

tehnology would definitly be diferent and this would afect economy and architecture, but probbably not as much as we would think

etruscans were big iron producers, so probbably the same would go for bronze, and romans would inherit this, but thre were strong bronze age cultures in the balkans and these would probbably maintain their power longer, limiting roman conquest

a lerge empire that thinks like rome did, would probbably go for the cheapest forms of weapons that are still efective enough, so they would limit the amount of bronce per legionare, using it to strenghten leather armor or make spikes on top of wooden speares, mass produced axes instead of swords

even in OTL romans were often "outgunned" by longer swords, skilled warriors, better metalurgy, deadly polearms, mounted archers, etc... they had a way of winning in the end, becouse they were sistematic, well organised and stubborn, or just becouse of superior tactical formations

all this had little to do with iron

 

[DuQuense]

So the Empire would seek to control the Copper and Tin Supplies.
So a Navy to control the copper islands in the Med, and a Outpost controlling Cornwall's Tin Mines.

How is iron not invented? is it not present on Earth? To function normally, a human needs an amount of iron (the specific use that comes to mind is hemoglobin)

A small village Somewhere in the fertile crescent ~4000 BC

The Smith watched his Apprentices carefully, The secret to making Star Metal, was one Bellow for the Charcoal, and a second one blowing air into the new ore itself. It also helped if you mixed some green wood into the ore.
The sword smiths in the near town thought he had found a fallen star.
As soon as the Apprentices left as journeymen the secret would be out, but till then He had a way to make golds.

Suddenly the smith heard a scream out side, Turning He saw a Summerian soldier, who ran his Bronze sword into the Smith.
A minute later both Apprentices had joined their Master.
Looking around the soldier took what Bronze and Copper he could find, and set fire to the Smithy.

20 years later the Bronze Smith in the newly rebuilt village would wonder where the previous smith had found so much Star Metal, and would spend all his spare time searching the nearby Hills.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

A society which matches Rome's organization and discipline isn't going to miss bronze too much. Properly prepared leather could be almost as effective as the armor of the earlier legions and shields aren't a problem to make. Also Roman and most bronze and iron age shields weren't made of metal.

Now, it is another thing to ask if they will expand as far as Rome did...

 

[Flocculencio]

I would say it's possible that we still get an equivalent of a Roman Empire, but it's going to be more difficult. Here's why...

If you don't have iron, basically you are stuck in the Bronze Age. The problem with bronze, at least in ancient times, was that it was VERY expensive. This severely limits the size of the armies you can equip.

The Roman Empire was able to expand as it did because it had huge reserves of manpower, and was able to equip that manpower for military use. A Bronze Age Rome is going to find that much more difficult to achieve. Not impossible, but very, very difficult.

Yup- this is the kicker. Bronze basically means you have a handful of superbly equipped aristocrats and a rabble with spears and bows. Even if you drill and discipline those troops, all you get is disciplined but still poorly armed troops. Iron allows you to field well armed, disciplined mass armies should you so choose.

Perhaps more importantly, though, iron is also much more common- with bronze, if you don't have ready sources of copper or tin, you're buggered if your enemy happens to be able to, say, cut off the tin trade from Britain.