TheHipster57
Banned
How would the brittish and commonwealth forces react to Spain and Portugal joining the axis powers
With the help of the Nazis the Spanish would take Gibraltar and a road race by Germany to control the southern half of the straights at Tangier would put the Med in complete control of the Axis power. With the Mediterranean Sea sealed off in the west and the Italians in charge in Ethiopia in the east the British would be hard pressed to support any activity in the Med. Montgomery would be surrendering or taking a sub back to Great Britain with in 6 months of those two objectives being met.![]()
With the help of the Nazis the Spanish would take Gibraltar and a road race by Germany to control the southern half of the straights at Tangier would put the Med in complete control of the Axis power. With the Mediterranean Sea sealed off in the west and the Italians in charge in Ethiopia in the east the British would be hard pressed to support any activity in the Med. Montgomery would be surrendering or taking a sub back to Great Britain with in 6 months of those two objectives being met.![]()
The ability of the Axis to take Gibralter was...doubtful, to say the least. And th British shipped most of the supplies in North Africa through the Suez Canal anyway, the Mediterranean was too dangerous.
There's also the fact the British had planned for and were militarily capable of occupying the Azores, and then conquering the Canaries and occupying the rest of Macronesia in the event the Spanish closed the Strait of Gibraltar.
And they were capable of landing in French Morrocco by 1942, as TORCH makes clear.
The ability of the Axis to take Gibralter was...doubtful, to say the least. And th British shipped most of the supplies in North Africa through the Suez Canal anyway, the Mediterranean was too dangerous.
what stands out would be location of u-boat base(s) in Spain not France.
the RAF unit that attacked u-boats in Bay of Biscay (the southernmost part) was based at Gibraltar, that option would not be there.
might have u-boat bases at Vigo and Gibraltar(?), IIRC Germany also requested at least docking at Canary Islands and Spanish Guinea (Equatorial Guinea)
Problem is the Spanish would be Swapping Gibraltar for those other places
While The British might not be able to hold onto Gibralter - Spain equally could not hold on to any of its overseas possessions.
So those same Maritime Aircraft would instead be flying from those other places and they would not be used for U-Boat basing.
I would check maps of Gibraltar.
Gibraltar has no high angle artillery. There is several places that large Howitzers can be placed that are unreachable with British defenses. These would have no problems smashing the roofs of the likes of water cisterns at "Nuns Well" and others
Taking Gibraltar would be possible, but they cannot launch direct attacks. And, logistical issues such as distances, fuel, troops and railways along with attacks by separatist and republican partisans on the German and Spanish troops make the possibility less likely. Of course, any 'Spain joins the Axis' thread has already mentioned the economic and supply issues of Franco's Spain plus the devastation of the previous civil war and guerillas. Not to mention Spain being more of a liability in the long term [after Hitler invades the Soviet Union].The ability of the Axis to take Gibralter was...doubtful, to say the least. And th British shipped most of the supplies in North Africa through the Suez Canal anyway, the Mediterranean was too dangerous.
the RN had their forces concentrated at Gibraltar and years (to say the least) of operating from there.
if dispersed over all the islands of the Canaries (and the Azores) it would take a period of time to secure and build? presume a somewhat greater number of troops to garrison?
they are pretty far afield to strike at Vigo(my scenario, there may be better sites on Spain's northern coast) much further than Gibraltar to Bay of Biscay.
Wonder what Churchill's reaction will be when he is informed that Portugal has terminated the Treaty of Windsor.
Head scratching probably before scooping up all the shipping and colonies. What on earth did the two countries have to gain balanced against the loss of food, credit and fuel imports, the colonies are probably worthless apart from prestige.
A lot of people are going to go hungry the Axis didnt have any spare food, money or fuel. Gaining Gibraltar will be a propaganda coup for Hitler and there will be a few more thousand troops to add to the meat grinder in the east but thats it. MI6 and SOE would be sending lots of guns and gold to the large numbers of Republicans still in the countryside who would love Civil War part 2 to start.
Royal Marines landing on the various Atlantic Islands seems the logical first step. Aside from that, there is little that could be done in the short term. Torch might have been an invasion of Iberia instead of North Africa (well maybe Morocco too).