British Weapons Enter Service A Year Earlier

Would the search for reliability drive alloy development or design to reduce reliance on fancy alloys or most likely

GE used cobalt-chromium-molybdenum-tungsten alloys for the '30-40s turbochargers. It's harder than Nimonic 75 to work with, but overall, Stellite 21or 23 was just as good as Nimonic 80 the UK started using in 1942, that was better than the early stainless steel, then Vicker's Rex 78 alloy that Power Jets had used up to that point.

To me, it's as simple as Whittle getting some US alloys when he starts after reading what GE had been doing with turbos. The early versions of that alloy had been developed pre WWI.
 
One weapon I would like to see in service earlier, and would I believe have a huge impact, is Hedgehog. It's a simple device requiring no great innovations to develop or deploy and greatly improved the effectiveness of the antisubmarine escorts.
 
Couple the above introduction of Hedgehog with the River class frigate coming into service a year earlier and the Battle of the Atlantic should change considerably.
 
Who said they'd be PR Mosquitos in service first? The strategic situation in early 1940 is far different than in 1941.

Is that not the case with all the weapons in this thread? Most of them where only developed due to war lessons that have not as yet happened in early 40 what's the difference in speeding up the PR system? A few PR spits would be perfectly possible to make and would make a huge difference as they could get pics of the main German thrust building up days earlier than OTL, with 3/4 days warning even the French high command in 1940 might be able to survive.
 

Coulsdon Eagle

Monthly Donor
I believe the British first saw the Hazemayer fire control system when an incomplete Dutch cruiser escaped from Rotterdam in 1940. If by chance they obtained the plans or a working version in 1939, would this have made a significant difference in RN gunnery, especially in the anti-aircraft role?
 
There were innumerable weapons and systems delayed prewar by a combination of political, financial and plain bad management decisions. Therefore the POD of bringing at least some weapons and system into use earlier could be realistic.
 
There were innumerable weapons and systems delayed prewar by a combination of political, financial and plain bad management decisions. Therefore the POD of bringing at least some weapons and system into use earlier could be realistic.

The POD is an early wank for no good reason except to justify a wank. The same politicians and bigwigs are in charge, but being a wank, the Lerwick, Botha, Roc, etc will not be built early or in larger quantities even though the same persons are in charge. Wank on!
 
I quite agree, Everything should be advanced by one year, so the duds will still exist but they will be seen as a dud a year earlier. This might be a wank but it can still be a balanced wank?
 
Winning the BoB with a better margin not only means less eficient LW in 1941, it means less wastage of men and material for the RAF, thus RAF and Allied AFs have a better going in 1941 and on. Despite the Germans introducing the Fw 190, Do 217 and re-designed Bf 109F. More problems for the Axis in Africa and SE Asia, too.
Not as smooth work vs. the Soviets as per OTL - less losses for the Soviets meaning they actually have useful air force and ground units, meaning German ground forces are hit harder than per OTL. More help to the UK and SU actually arrives = even harder times for the Axis.

Winning the BoB with a greater margin is easy. Have the massive Castle Bromwich Spitfire factory entrusted to anyone but Lord bloody Nuffield and Morris. If it had been placed in the hands of Vickers Armstrong from the start, and then properly managed, it would have been producing hundreds of planes a month by the start of 1940.
 
One weapon I would like to see in service earlier, and would I believe have a huge impact, is Hedgehog. It's a simple device requiring no great innovations to develop or deploy and greatly improved the effectiveness of the antisubmarine escorts.

The Flower Class Corvettes and Hunt Class "Destroyers" were conceived as cheap, replacable escorts.
It's not much of a leap to look into and fund the design of cheap, easy to prooduce ASW kit.
Good shout.
 
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The Type IV Hunt class was a different design for the I-IIIs intended for greater steaming efficiency.
Maybe intoduce OTL's type IV hull instead of the type III and optimise the follow on variant for
range and ease of production?
 
IIRC the Flowers and Hunts both sort of missed the mark; the Flowers were too small and slow and the Hunts too fast and too much geared for general warfare. Perhaps the best bet would be for the Black Swan sloops and River frigates come on line a year earlier, both seem better matched to the threat than the Flowers and Hunts.
 
The Black Swan Sloops were IIRC nearly as expensive as Destroyers. The Rivers were designed as a cheaper option suitable for building rapidly by civilians yards. Having the Hunt type IV earlier is possible because Thornycroft proposed their version in 1938 I believe and the Admiralty declined and went with their own design which was Flawed. The hull was too narrow and as a result the type one Hunt's were to unstable to carry their planned armament.
 
They might have done better by building improved versions of the WWI Flower Class Sloops. They'd almost have to be more habitable than the corvettes, and looking at their lines easier to build. No curved plates to deal with.
 
So if Brits advance all these weapons a year earlier , then they could go bankrupt before America enters the war. I wonder who they would sell down the river to pay for this? Canada becomes the 51st state? maybe another 3 million indie have to starve to death so bread doesn't have to be rationed?
 
So if Brits advance all these weapons a year earlier , then they could go bankrupt before America enters the war. I wonder who they would sell down the river to pay for this? Canada becomes the 51st state? maybe another 3 million indie have to starve to death so bread doesn't have to be rationed?

Having better weapons is cheaper, the exchange rates in battle are better so Britain is less likely to go broke.
 
Besides, some of these entries are based on taking money from other, less successful projects.

E.g. Rolls Royce cancels research in the X24 Vulture and Exe, concentrating on the Griffon.
 
The Black Swan Sloops were IIRC nearly as expensive as Destroyers. The Rivers were designed as a cheaper option suitable for building rapidly by civilians yards. Having the Hunt type IV earlier is possible because Thornycroft proposed their version in 1938 I believe and the Admiralty declined and went with their own design which was Flawed. The hull was too narrow and as a result the type one Hunt's were to unstable to carry their planned armament.

The type 4 is a more promising design and forms the basis of the class ITTL. Remove the torpedoes, you don't need those for ASW escort. Work on fuel capacity for later marks and simplification of the overall design for mass production.

Maybe the River Class is a follow on/improvement much like the Castle in relation to the Flower.
 
So if Brits advance all these weapons a year earlier, then they could go bankrupt before America enters the war. I wonder who they would sell down the river to pay for this? Canada becomes the 51st state? maybe another 3 million indie have to starve to death so bread doesn't have to be rationed?
Originally it was better weapons a year earlier, rather than more weapons a year earlier. Therefore it was a question of building the same number of tanks in 1940 but instead of building Tank Y they built Tank Z. Although some of the better weapons will be more expensive than the weapons they were built instead of the increase is not large enough to drive the UK to bankruptcy a year earlier IMHO. My personal opinion is that bringing forward the increases in production a year ahead of OTL won't automatically bring the UK to bankruptcy either. It might have a significantly larger National Debt afterwards though.

But, AFAIK the UK was bankrupt by the beginning of 1941 and was only saved from disaster by Lend Lease.
 
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Originally it was better weapons a year earlier,

As I read it, originally, it was weapons earlier, not better weapons. It was implied that they would be better, since they were later, but not stated. That became quite stretched and flexible if it excluded Mosquito, or Hedgehog, since several advances arrived beyond the limit. This would place the Hurricane into the realm of fighter-bomber, with its one year's additional capabilities and performance, but it doesn't necessarily create that knowledge of these characteristics within the Ministry. We have earlier weapons, not smarter people. Would it not still be desired and husbanded within its original Defence of GB role? The establishment of a viable tactical doctrine does not fall within a one year span where it would make any difference. It also means that more Defiants will be serving in their original role, and their subsequent withdrawal will have greater impact.
 
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