British Weapons Enter Service A Year Earlier

[NOMISYRRUC]

NOM why don't we turn the original question complete volte face and ask them if the Allies best kit came along a year (or moderately more) earlier? Hang on that would mean UK having its own manufactured VT fuses for starters, so more Luftwaffe getting shot down far sooner...

17pdr starts to make a mess of panzerwaffe far earlier too, also a very good thing, Comet and Centurion tanks at DDay, NICE.

Start a new thread for that, it deserves it's own independent attention for such a large discussion.

United Kingdom, British Empire and Commonwealth only. We can have separate threads for the USA, USSR and other allied nations.

Edit

Bonus points will be awarded if plausible reasons for how it comes about are provided.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

I'll start the ball rolling with the King George V class battleships.

They can't be laid down any earlier because of the naval arms limitation treaties. However, each ship was scheduled to be built in 3½ years and they all took longer to build. That was mainly due to the late delivery of the turrets, but Anson and Howe were also suspended for a time because of the invasion crisis in 1940.

IMHO if they had stuck with the design mounting nine 15" in 3 triple turrets or decided to make the change to twelve 14" and then ten 14" a year earlier the turrets would have been ready in time for King George V and Prince of Wales which were laid down in January 1937 to be commissioned in July 1940. The next three Duke of York, Anson and Howe were laid down in the middle of 1937. Had they been completed on time they would have been commissioned at the end of 1940.

 

[wietze]

does this included carriers etc?
it will mean a whole bunch of colossus class carriers will arrive in 44, the majestics will be finished in early 45 instead of the slow boat in otl, ditto for the audacious class

 

[riggerrob]

17-pounder AT gun
Bren gun
Bristol Centarus engine
Bristol Hercules engine
Comet tank
Merlin Mark? engine
Piat
Sten gun
Auster
Bristol Freighter
Hamilcar X with engines big enough to climb at gross weight
Horsa glider
Hurricane with 20 mm cannons
Lancaster
Meteor
Monoplane training airplanes
Mosquito
Spitfire Mark?
Sunderland
Typhoon
Tempest
Sea Fury
X Type Parachute
Valentine Archer

 

[wietze]

Merlin Mark? engine

which brings us on a british inspiration, the P-51B/C with Merlin engines, production starting in early 42 instead of 43

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

This would be harder to do than the KGVs but the 6 armoured aircraft carriers laid down 1937-39 were also seriously delayed. All were planned to be built in exactly 3 years. However, only Illustrious came close to meeting her scheduled completion date. This list has their actual completion dates followed by their planned completion dates.

25/05/1940 - 01/04/1940 - Illustrious - 1 month late
15/05/1941 - 01/05/1940 - Victorious - 12 months late
10/10/1941 - 01/11/1940 - Indomitable - 11 months late
24/11/1940 - 01/06/1940 - Formidable - 5 months late
28/08/1944 - 01/02/1942 - Implacable - 30 months late
03/05/1944 - 01/11/1942 - Indefatigable - 18 months late​

Had Victorious and Formidable (along with the projected expansion of the FAA) been completed on time the Mediterranean Fleet could have attacked Taranto with 3 aircraft carriers instead of one; had 3 times the fighter cover when it met Fliegerkorps X off Malta in January 1941, attacked the Vittorio Vento (if it had survived the TTL Taranto raid undamaged) with 3 times as many aircraft; and had 3 times the air cover off Crete in May 1941.

Indomitable would have taken the place of Victorious in the Bismarck chase. As Indomitable had been completed 6 months earlier than Victorious ITTL she might have had a full-strength air group which was also fully trained.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

My first thought on the KGVs been completed by the end of 1940 is that either the Lions get at least partially built or they pull the guns from one of the Rs and build another Vanguard. The two Vanguards then get commissioned just as the war ends.

The Light Fleets all entering service before the end of the war is going to be a challenge. I think the RN would have to give the escort carriers back to the USN to be able to man them, and possibly have to poach aircrew from the RAF as well. As to what use they'd be. They can release the Fleet Carriers from service in Europe earlier allowing the Pacific Fleet to form after the Landings in the South of France. It might be possible to have more than one task force once the RN is grudgingly allowed to join the Pacific campaign though like the US carriers the Light Fleets would be much more vulnerable to damage by Kamikazi. Post war the Australians, Canadians, Dutch and French get their carriers straight away, if they haven't already taken them over. I think their being built early results in all 8 of the Centaurs being built with the final 4 emerging in the same form as Hermes. Australia probably signs up for one during the Korean War with Canada following later. India may also purchase one of the first flight Centaurs.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Does this included carriers etc? It will mean a whole bunch of Colossus class carriers will arrive in 44, the Majestics will be finished in early 45 instead of the slow boat in OTL, ditto for the Audacious class

Yes, but I'd like a plausible explanation of how it's achieved.

 

[Deleted member 1487]

Cromwell/Comet tank pre-Normandy would help.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

It's a shame this is restricted to WWII. MK IV tanks available in 1916 while the Germans are bleeding themselves an the French white a Verdun would make an impact.

 

[riggerrob]

Armoured Personnel Carriers a year earlier?

OTL the only significant Commonwealth production was CMP armoured ambulances, but only the crew were protected. It was only late war CMP ambulances that grew full-length armoured sides.
OTL Commonwealth troops suffered significant losses (from shell fragments) often before they reached their start lines. Some Tommies rode into battle in American half-tracks or hastily-converted old tanks (e.g. Ram) or SP artillery (Priest). Commonwealth armies only started de-turreting old tanks late in 1943, but NW Europe did not start converting Kangaroos until August 1944.
By August, Canadian infantry casualties were so high that exhaustion delayed clearing the Port of Antwerp and the subsequent Conscription Crisis almost toppled the ruling party in Ottawa.

WI Valentine Archer and Bishop Mark 3 were supported by Valentine armoured ammo carriers?
WI Valentine Portee production soon out-striped Valentine SP production and Valentine APCs were issued to infantry regiments in significant numbers?
What British 4x4 or 6x6 wheeled chassis was suitable for conversion to APC?

 

[KillerT]

How about Avenger tank destroyers instead of Achilles? Faster and more capable over ground.

We get a functional mk6 7.2 in howitzer and matching long 9.2in super heavy. Hopefully the 4.5 is dropped and just concentrate on the 5.5in medium. Oh and in mid 44 the mighty 32pdr turns up both towed (rather large) and in tortoise format...

With stuff happening earlier we should also get to see Alecto SPATs running out of powered Hamilcars (aka Beverley transports) now those little babies would have been rather effective for anything Garden oriented.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

My first thought on the KGVs been completed by the end of 1940 is that either the Lions get at least partially built or they pull the guns from one of the Rs and build another Vanguard. The two Vanguards then get commissioned just as the war ends.

If completed in the scheduled 3.5 years Lion and Temeraire wouldn't have been completed until the beginning of 1943. I think laying them down a year earlier isn't plausible.

Extra warships are out of bounds so no second Vanguard. In any case if the resources were available I'd want them to build another Audacious or speed up the 3 ships that were laid down.

However, re-using existing turrets was supposed to cut the building time of Vanguard to 2 years, i.e. October 1943, but instead she was completed in May 1946 or 2.5 years late. Therefore if a plausible reason to complete her on time can be given then that is allowed.

 

[tomo pauk]

Aircraft!
So we have Spitfire V, Hurricane II, Whirlwind, Beaufighter for the BoB. Hispanos galore.
Mosquitos, Spitfire IX and Lancaster from 1941. Spitfires in Med, Malaya and Australia in second half of 1941. Sea Hurricane and Seafire in 1941.
Spitfire VII and XII, de-bugged Typhoon in 1942, Tempest V and Spitfire XIV in 1943.
Long-range Spitfire and Tempest in 1944, plus Meteor, Vampire, Tempest II, Sea Fury and Hornet.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

The Light Fleets all entering service before the end of the war is going to be a challenge. I think the RN would have to give the escort carriers back to the USN to be able to man them, and possibly have to poach aircrew from the RAF as well. As to what use they'd be. They can release the Fleet Carriers from service in Europe earlier allowing the Pacific Fleet to form after the Landings in the South of France. It might be possible to have more than one task force once the RN is grudgingly allowed to join the Pacific campaign though like the US carriers the Light Fleets would be much more vulnerable to damage by Kamikazi. Post war the Australians, Canadians, Dutch and French get their carriers straight away, if they haven't already taken them over. I think their being built early results in all 8 of the Centaurs being built with the final 4 emerging in the same form as Hermes. Australia probably signs up for one during the Korean War with Canada following later. India may also purchase one of the first flight Centaurs.

IIRC your suggestion that some of the CVEs would have to be returned to the USA to provide the crews for the CVLs was the plan IOTL. It was also the plan that the Canadians would man 2 CVLs.

The idea for what became the Colossus class had been around for some time. That is a slow fighter carrier to work with the battleships. If the Admiralty had approved the design that was built a year earlier the first 8 Colossus class ships could have been ordered in 1941 instead of 1942 and built in place of the 8 cruisers that were ordered in 1941.

 

[pdf27]

It's an interesting cascade effect - the battle of the Atlantic is potentially won a year earlier, which will accelerate a lot of what was built in the UK by more than a year (the shipyards for instance were concentrating heavily on escorts and damage repair for the Battle of the Atlantic - so not only will they be freed up a year earlier than OTL, but the import tap will be opened earlier and more shipping will be available when it is).

 

[tomo pauk]

Winning the BoB with a better margin not only means less eficient LW in 1941, it means less wastage of men and material for the RAF, thus RAF and Allied AFs have a better going in 1941 and on. Despite the Germans introducing the Fw 190, Do 217 and re-designed Bf 109F. More problems for the Axis in Africa and SE Asia, too.
Not as smooth work vs. the Soviets as per OTL - less losses for the Soviets meaning they actually have useful air force and ground units, meaning German ground forces are hit harder than per OTL. More help to the UK and SU actually arrives = even harder times for the Axis.

 

[James Ricker]

Hispanos in 1940 would have jacked up Luftwaffe casualties in the Battle of Brittan,especially amongst the bombers.
That would have serious consequences 1 year later at the start of Barbarossa.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Edit to the OP

Bonus points will be awarded if plausible reasons for how it comes about are provided.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

My first thought on the KGVs been completed by the end of 1940 is that either the Lions get at least partially built or they pull the guns from one of the Rs and build another Vanguard. The two Vanguards then get commissioned just as the war ends.

Although I think it won't help the Lion class completing the KGVs and Illustrious class on time will have a knock on effect for subsequent new construction because slipways and fitting out berths will become available sooner. We might have the Audacious class laid down sooner and some of the Malta class laid down before the war ends.