British take Baltimore in the war of 1812 pre tl discussion

Hey Guys in this tl the British bombardment of Fort Mchenry succeeds. In otl a british shell almost landed on the major store of gunpowder in the fort. So in this tl what if that shell hits the gunpowder store. The storage place goes boom. With the ammunition gone fort Mchenry surrenders to Britain. Also by this time WI after the battle of North point the British under General Brooke continue the offensive instead of waiting for reinforcements. This catches the Americans by surprise and Baltimore falls. With Baltimore taken the British will gain a foothold on the American continent. I think it is possible that with Baltimore taken the British can continue their offensive against the US. So before I continue the tl I have a few questions

How would this affect the outcome of the war of 1812
What terms would the British ask from America
What future awaits America.


Also would anyone be interested in ths tl. I am a buff n the war of 1812 which is one of my favourate subjects in US History, so I was wondering wheather or not anyone would be interested in this tl.
 
I'm interested. From my understanding of the war the British were never really too concerned with gaining territory from the US. They would have been happy to force a white peace which is what they did.

That said the British Empire has been known to jump at the chance of taking new territory. The India Mutiny while awful for the Brits it also allowed them to pretty much take over any last free states in India.

Once aroused the Brits would either go for release of states of conquest of North America. That said the American were towards then pretty much on the run with desperate stands and defences. Given enough support from the Home Isle this is a good posible. One of the main reasons they settled for white peace was that Britian had just ended one of the most exhausting wars in the History of Europe. No one was too interested in fighting another one.
 
The foreign secretary would have to be different for a peace that was anything but a status quo ante.
[FONT=&quot]Yeah but remember at this time US morale was at an all time low, Washington was sacked, the US army was in disarray, and many Americans lost hope, Baltimore was what one could call a morale boost. But with Baltimore taken the Federalists will be able to make their case against the war hawks. Remember in otl most feds abhorred the war and protested it, but with the British defeat and the star spangled banner, the feds lost all hope of regaining power and so they disbanded. But in this Tl, what happens is that Baltimore falls allowing the Feds to most likely seize power from the Republicans (Not The Modern day republicans). However I know white piece is what most hoped for so in this tl Ross does not die, meaning he does not get shot by the sniper SO with Ross still in the game the British don’t lose morale. Also By this time most of the frontier was taken by Britain so in this Tl the Detroit frontier campaign end in a string of British victories. Plus I plan for Stonewall Jackson to die. During a battle he gets shot by a sniper (Not ASB) and William Henry Harrison be defeated on the frontier, with these two dead, the Frontier collapses to the red Styx and Tecumseh who live. So the feds overthrow the republicans and soon sue for peace, in the peace the Native American lands are returned to Natives and Britain reestablishes Hegemony in North America. Think of it as an America screw.[/FONT]
 

archaeogeek

Banned
It still won't change that the likely outcome is status quo ante; London considered the was a misunderstanding.
 
Except William Henry Harrison wasn't an irreplacable figure and Stonewall Jackson had nothing to do with this war, otherwise...also Ross surviving makes no difference as he had no intention of charging a dug in enemy force which outnumbered his own by four to one. Only the RN can win Baltimore.

Neither is there any way the Federalists can overthrow the US government.
 
It still won't change that the likely outcome is status quo ante; London considered the was a misunderstanding.
Like I said, unless huge public support from the Home Isles the likelihood of the war being anything over the status quo would be difficult.

Unless of course with the taking of Balitmore, those that support the war get start getting more attention and lime light. If the government started to fund propaganda campaigns in support of the war then I could see the war starting to pick up a faster pace and much more demanding Britain.
 
The only real changes I can see happening are the Maine border dispute being resolved in favour of Britain, and perhaps some adjustments to the border of the Louisiana purchase in the North (and just perhaps a provision which means Oregon ends up under full British control).
 
It would be an interesting TL, I ask myself which would be the consecuences for New Orleans, the british will try to go with an expedition to conquer it?, also a weaker United States could demand so easily Florida to Spain?
 

archaeogeek

Banned
The only real changes I can see happening are the Maine border dispute being resolved in favour of Britain, and perhaps some adjustments to the border of the Louisiana purchase in the North (and just perhaps a provision which means Oregon ends up under full British control).
That would be amazing hindsight considering at the time Oregon was still Spanish territory with some russian presence :p
 
I think Oregon was de facto an abandoned territory, only truly settled around this time when first John Jacob Astor founded Astoria in 1811 in the name of the Pacific Fur Company, in any case the english North West Company was also very interested in this region, David Thompson had explored the totality of the Columbia River in 1811 and he made an important work of cartography about this region.

In OTL Astoria (or Fort Astor) was sold tho the North West Company and renamed Fort George.

So the North West Company and also its competitor the Hudson Bay Company were very interested in assuring Oregon for the british control.
 
[FONT=&quot] Plus I plan for Stonewall Jackson to die. [/FONT]
Wrong Jackson. You're thinking of Andrew Jackson. Stonewall was born a decade after your POD. And Andrew Jackson wasn't a major national figure at the time, nor irreplaceable. He only became a household name after the Battle of New Orleans in 1815.

I think the most likely outcome of this is minor border concessions in the Northwest, like Detroit.
 
Also By this time most of the frontier was taken by Britain so in this Tl the Detroit frontier campaign end in a string of British victories. Plus I plan for Stonewall Jackson to die. During a battle he gets shot by a sniper (Not ASB) and William Henry Harrison be defeated on the frontier, with these two dead, the Frontier collapses to the red Styx and Tecumseh who live. .[/FONT]
Um, sorry Stonewall Jackson wasn't alive when this war took place. Your thinking of Ol' Hickory, or Andrew Jackson.

EDIT: dang it, sniped
 
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Wrong Jackson. You're thinking of Andrew Jackson. Stonewall was born a decade after your POD. And Andrew Jackson wasn't a major national figure at the time, nor irreplaceable. He only became a household name after the Battle of New Orleans in 1815.

I think the most likely outcome of this is minor border concessions in the Northwest, like Detroit.
You know who I meant:rolleyes: Anyway Jackson was actually important, at ths time he led the Tennesse Militia, they were key in winning serious victories against natives. In this tl Jackson dies, also Ross not important. BS

In otl when Ross was shot the British who looked to him as a father figure were demoralized. Although another competant general took his place, the army was not held together, what should have been an easy walkover was impossible because now with such dishearteaned Morale the british could not put up a true fight. Prove me wrong otherwise. He was pivotal, in fact most historians agree that had Ross survived, Baltimore would have fallen to the british soldiers. So he was important, Likewise with fort henry taken the british could continue their invasion plans. Henry harrison I want dead because then we butterfly away tippecanoe which we all know led to a crushing defeat for the natives, likewise the battle of the Thames is butterflied away allowing tecumseh to live.. Plus with Jackson dead weatherford and the red styx loss at horsehsoe bend is butterflied away. I said that the feds would win seats in US goverment, not overthrownment. In otl the feds were anti war, and with these string of defeats the American people will not like Mr. Madison's war allowing the fedsto retake the house and congress. So with the detroit frontier fallen, maryland gone, New Orleons remains undefended so it too gets captured by the British, the british launch the invasion from the north crushing the Americans. So the feds win the house and congress and sue for peace. That is what is too happen srry if you misunderestood me.
 
Ummm. Sry I made a doozy, ignore what I said before abou Thames, etc they already happened:(:( So then with Jackson dead Horseshoe bend ends in Weatherfords victory, plus the British invasion force can continue the Chesapeake campaign against US. plus with this complete the US are defenseless in New Orleons which falls to Britain, with New Orleons under british control the Invasion from Canada can proceed, this butterflies away Plattsburg, plus now the British control Missipi and launch the two front war on te US. leading to crushing US losses, so the Feds who are still around are able to sieze power in the elections by Opposing Mr. Madison disastrous war.



Again extremly srry for posting wrong Information:(:(:(:(:( forgive me.;)
 
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