British "Reconquista" 1814-1900

So how can we have the British empire reconquer and re-incorporate the United States into the empire from the period at the end of the war of 1812 to the year 1900?

Is this possible? If so how can it be achieved?
 
I put forward part of how to do such a thing on another thread yesterday - have the war of 1812 go so well for the UK that it gets control of Louisiana, the Great Lakes, St.Louis and the Mississippi.

This leaves the UK in a position where rather than investing in the USA, it can choose to put all its investments into British Louisiana and the Great Lakes - at the cost of the USA. In fact, the best way to weaken the USA is to stop financing it, instead, focusing on investment throughout the rest of the Empire.

This strengthens the British in North America, and weakens the US economically. If this causes the USA to have economic issues that rip it apart, fantastic, otherwise, Britain can begin to apply soft power to the individual states - offering them a place in the Empire. As soon as that starts to gain traction, the USA is done for. All without having to fire a shot.
 
So how can we have the British empire reconquer and re-incorporate the United States into the empire from the period at the end of the war of 1812 to the year 1900?

Is this possible? If so how can it be achieved?

Best way would be to have the Articles of Confederation retained. That way the US could end up like the HRE, with each state theoretically part of one country but practically independent, making it difficult for them to stand up against the British.
 
After 1814, it's going to be really hard. To accomplish this, you really need a much weaker US and thus an earlier POD. As Fabius Maximus suggests, keeping the Articles of Confederation could lead to a collapse of the US with sufficient outside pressure.

I'd add to that if the US won independence, but was less effective on the battlefield and negotiating table, you could see a weaker US. If, for example, the US was not able to secure the trans-Appalachian west in the Treaty of Paris, then the next wars against the UK could lead to the reconquest of the area--probably in stages rather than all at once.

You would also need for the UK to be interest in such a scheme. I don't know if it would be.
 
I think that it would only be possible with a balkanised USA - ie: a disunited states of America. Perhaps a different early history, a Constitution that gets voted down, or diluted horribly. Perhaps if Washington dies before he can become President and someone totally different gets the job, before making a total horlicks of it?
 
I don't think it's possible after 1814 either. The secessionists in New England would be a starting point, and British investment in the north and south of the continent to the detriment of the original states would also help. Napoleon has to be sorted earlier - say before the coronation? That would allow GB to play a greater game in the Americas. Including South America????
 
So how can we have the British empire reconquer and re-incorporate the United States into the empire from the period at the end of the war of 1812 to the year 1900?

Is this possible? If so how can it be achieved?
Nope. They couldn't beat a smaller and weaker US in the ARW, when many colonists WANTED to stay with Britain. By 1814? Ha!
 
WI Natives west of the Mississippi were told the truth about United States plans for the Great Plains: genocide, ethnic cleansing, massacres, starvation, land theft, destruction of existing culture, imprisoning priests of the old religions, slaughtering bison to the brink of extinction, etc.?

WI the British Empire offered Plains Indians (mostly) self-rule?

WI Great Britain offered Plains Indians arms and military advisors to help defend native-held lands (98%) west of the Mississippi?

WI Alternatively, Great Britain offered plows, seeds, reasonable export contracts, tax incentives, free trade with the British Empire to natives who wanted to update agricultural practices?
 
WI Natives west of the Mississippi were told the truth about United States plans for the Great Plains: genocide, ethnic cleansing, massacres, starvation, land theft, destruction of existing culture, imprisoning priests of the old religions, slaughtering bison to the brink of extinction, etc.?

WI the British Empire offered Plains Indians (mostly) self-rule?

WI Great Britain offered Plains Indians arms and military advisors to help defend native-held lands (98%) west of the Mississippi?

WI Alternatively, Great Britain offered plows, seeds, reasonable export contracts, tax incentives, free trade with the British Empire to natives who wanted to update agricultural practices?

While offerring military and/or agricultural help to the natives certainly could increase the amount of resistance they could give to the USA, I think 1814 is too late to prevent US expansion. The native population is simply too small and the USA population too big. Westward expansion may slow as ths critical mass necessary to overcome the natives would be greater but that critical mass would still eventually be reached.

However, if the natives' agricultural practices were improved by a time-travelling 19th-century Brit in 1614 then, with 200 years of natural population growth, the natives could be a formidable opponent by 1814.
 
i know it's a long shot, but what if Britain never joined the anti-napoleon coalition and a stronger napoleon tried to expand french Louisiana westward threatening the US instead of invading Egypt. a united states already weakened by war of 1812 tries to launch a preemptive attack against napoleon, but it is badly organised and fails disastrously(unrealistic i know). this defeat teamed with weakened economy as a result of french blockade leaves to states becoming less confident in the union. the British government (who would be looking fr an excuse to weaken napoleon so as to maintain the European balance of power) promises some states to send navy to brake blockade if states agree to rejoin empire while still retaining low taxes and a degree of autonomy. some states agree, (most likely from the industrialized north as the British empire was very anti-slavery at the time) and the British destroy napoleons fleet in an alternate american battle of the Nile while Canada along with Iroquois allies who have lost land to napoleon help pro British states. and with a heavy British military presence in the area as well as good public opinion of Britain due to the war, the american government have to let these states leave. over the next decade they are easily assimilated into Canada. for the sake of this timeline we will assume that everything north of new York goes Canadian.

once Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo the Americans are no longer able to play off the British and Americans against each other and a stronger Canada wouldn't allow the Americans to expand west into Iroquois lands or french Louisiana which they would have officially claimed after the Napoleonic wars, although it will still be primarily be occupied by native Americans.

Over time the British will refuse to trade with the Americans and British navy will prevent the US from trading elsewhere and the Americans (whose income comes almost entirely from selling cash crops to Europe). additionally the British may try to support slave revolts or help free slaves in america similarly to the union during the civil war in our timeline. once america is on the verge of collapse the British will offer the Americans an offer they can't refuse, if they agree to accept the British monarch as head of state as well as respecting everything west of the Appalachian mountains as crown land and agree to abolish slavery,in return they will not be taxed by Britain and will be self governing on civil affairs, similar to Australia or Canada today, and again more states will join the empire. while some of the southern states may still refuse, by this point the Canadians will be militarily vastly superior to the US an d this timeline could go one of two ways

1. Britain declarers war on the US, this will go similarly to the US civil war except that with the help of the invincible British navy the union will have even more of an advantage, however the south cold resort to guerrilla warfare making this conflict long and bloody and it will probably still be a sore subject to this day with the south considering the north traitors and the north considering the south violent racists, kind of like civil war resentment now, but worse.

2. Britain continues to put economic sanctions on the south unless they abolish slavery, eventually slavery will not be worth it and the south will probably abolish it sometime in the 1850s. by this point the us and Canada have had 70 years to grow apart culturally and it is unlikely that they will reunite without a good reason. instead the south will become a sort of small Canadian puppet state similar to what Canada is to the US today. it is possible that this southern state could make an alliance with mexico and side with the central powers in world war 1 to reclaim their lost lands, but this is unlikely and if it did happen, the north would probably win and may annex the south.

In the long term this reconquista will probably mean that

a. the British government will know that a larger US will be more likely to rebel again, so they will probably make sure that Canada/America never expands as far west and many native american nations survive to this day, while heavily under Canada's sphere of influence
b. as the south had to give up slavery earlier, it will probably be more industrialized.
c. as the colonies of Russian Alaska, and Spanish California were both very weak, it is possible that japan may try to colonise the west coast, alternatively, after Italy and Germany unify in the 1860s and start looking for colonies, they may try to found their own colonies in america bringing them into direct conflict with Canadian allied native Americans and speeding up the arrival of world war two.
d. as the us/Canada would not have a large pacific presence, pearl harbor would never happen and instead all american forces would be dedicated to fighting Hitler from the start of world war two. while Britain may try to reclaim their Asian colonies after world war two, more likely it will begin a sort of cold war with the Japanese, funding local resistance movements, and eventually the Japanese empire would collapse as a result of ethnic tensions in the area.
e. american army being on western front from start of world wars one and two will mean that Germany is defeated quicker, and in the case of ww2, the western powers would liberate most of eastern Europe, so the eastern Bloc would never form, and the cold war would be much smaller
f. as Britain would be much stronger during the late 1800s, it is possible there will be a balance of power war against Britain, similar to what happened to France in the Napoleonic wars, to Germany in ww1,or to the Hapsburgs in the war of Austrian succession and the thirty years war
 

aenigma

Banned
The british could try to make a seperate dominion on the westcoast and center in the event of a reconquest
But i dont see them leaving all that land free for russia/japan/wichever other just to keep the us from revolting again jonathan
 
1. British push after Trent Affair for Confederate independence

2. California quietly encouraged to secede a few years later followed by Cascadia

3. Texas becomes British satellite as Great Lakes decide impotent DC is unable to protect them if it can't win wars

4. Mormons decide time is right to take their own independence while New England secedes after being offered better trade deal with UK as independent nation. Great Plains fear US and Chicago both lack strength to protect them and gontheir own way with Mississippi and Rockies as approximate borders.

5. UK plays different post-US nations off of one another such that is soon all but annexes Cascadia and New England as new Dominions while making Texas, Great Plains, Deseret, and California economically dependent on London and the Royal Navy.

6. Trick or force war between the Great Lakes, rump Confederacy, and leftover USA (mid-Atlantic) and *immediately* go after the winner

7. By 1900 a series of satellites and outright dominions emerge and the world now grows fearful of British supremacy. Germany now seen as leader of emerging Allied anti-London forces, supporters of London being known as Axis forces as it seeks to.make the world turn on the Greenwich 'axis'.
 
Maybe have a much bloodier and more widespread civil war, leading to the collapse of the US? Say, have abolitionism be less popular in the north, meaning that slavery survives into the mid-19th century, and more popular in the south, meaning that the peculiar institution is a matter of much more contention down there. As conflict between pro-abolitionist and pro-slavery factions intensifies, the entire country becomes a kind of Bleeding Kansas writ large, and when civil war finally breaks out, instead of splitting into two contiguous and geographically coherent entities, the US fractures into a multitudinous patchwork of pro- and anti-slavery areas. Massacres and atrocities become widespread, as the government in Washington is powerless to stop the slaughter. Eventually, Britain and France, motivated by a combination of humanitarian concern, Machiavellian self-interest, and (in Britain's case) worry that the violence could spill over into Canada, intervene to restore order. The US is still too divided to offer any serious resistance, and large swathes of the country are occupied and pacified by the Anglo-French forces. Spotting an opportunity to increase the strategic depth of their North American provinces, Britain offers the states of New England and the Lakes region a deal: they can leave the failed experiment that is the US, and join the protection of the British Empire, where they'll enjoy full self-government in their internal affairs, with defence and foreign policy being left in the hands of the UK. Most of these states agree, with varying degrees of enthusiasm or reluctance. As for the rest of the country, Britain and France have no desire to see it re-unified and potentially become a rival down the line, so they encourage the various states to secede, something which is relatively easy because the Federal government has been discredited in the eyes of many by being so incapable of stopping the civil war. Some of the newly-seceded states join the British or French Empires; the rest mostly end up falling into the British or French sphere to a greater or lesser degree.
 
Britain had zero interest in spending money to take land full of rebellious whiners. All the people they wanted to protect had left for Canada. The only land they might want for USA would be Ohio, Michigan, and West of the Mississippi.
 
So a glorious host of redcoats won't be sailing over the Atlantic to reconquer Boston and Savannah?

Not unless some modern day Caesar/Pompey/Crassus offer 100% of the funds (salaries, ammunition, supply requisition money) to do so... and that modern day philanthropist is loyal to the crown.
 
So how can we have the British empire reconquer and re-incorporate the United States into the empire from the period at the end of the war of 1812 to the year 1900?

Is this possible? If so how can it be achieved?

In brief terms, this really isn't possible. There's no incentive when you have colonies far more profitable (and compliant) like India and South Africa to consume resources from. The British would balk at the expense of trying to reconquer the much much larger United States, and quite frankly this would be a war of literal national survival for the US. They'd probably take the finances of Britain with them alongside hundreds of thousands of redcoats.

Aint gonna happen.
 
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