British Northeast Asia?

In OTL, England/Britain managed to grab a good number of the temperate/colder temperate areas with ocean coastline as settler colonies. They grabbed the East and West coasts of North America with those climates, the south end of Africa (the only part that comes close in climate) and the areas in Australia and New Zealand.

The two areas that they didn't get (not counting Europe, of course) are in South America and Northeast Asia. Now, I've seen quite a few TL with the English grabbing Buenos Aries and Patagonia in one of the 18th century wars where England and Spain were on opposite sides (pick one) and I don't think it would be too difficult for Santiago to be included in that.

But what I haven't seen is any TL where the English/British end up with Northeast Asia. In this case, Northeast Asia is equal to the OTL Russian Far East, since I think British control of Korea looks more like its control of India than Canada. But the natives of the Kamchatkan Peninsula and most of the coastline of the Sea of Okhotsk of the OTL Russian Coastline were considerably closer to Canada's natives. (The Amur river basin peoples were somewhat in between. Not sure how they would compare with say the Iroquois)

Unfortunately, the only TL ideas that I have for ending up with British control of the OTL Russian Far East involve a POD in the 20th century with either the Russian Civil War or an expanded Polish Russian War (1920s) with Britain deciding that the best thing that it can do against the Communists is to attack Vladivostok.

So any ideas on a TL where the English/British end up with some part of OTL Russian Far East *as a Settler Colony*?
 
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Have war breakout in Central Asia at the height of the Great Game. Perhaps the Russians think "fuck it" and go all-out for Afghanistan. With India feeling threatened, the Brits decide to pre-emptively retaliate and a proxy war begins in the highlands of Afghanistan. As the war escalates, Britain attacks Vladivostok and sinks the Russian fleet there - Russia sues for peace now that they've lost their navy and the British have been throwing endless hordes of Indian troops into Afghanistan to combat the Russian advance. Likewise, the British propoganda machine has been working wonders in Kabul, making the Russians out to be horrible aggressors while the British wish to preserve Afghan independence (not completely untrue).

In the peace treaty, Russia cedes Sakhalin and Russian Manchuria with the Amur as the northern border. This likely butterflies the Russo-Japanese War, but may tarnish Anglo-Japanese relations in the future (with Britain so close to Korea, they'll be looking to expand their influence in the region for security purposes).
 
The area isn't as temperate as you seem to think. It's much more like an Alaskan-style climate:

http://www.climate-charts.com/images/world-temperature-map.png

The problem you have here is that East Asia has long existing state societies. That means the areas that have a good climate to live, like Korea/Japan/Manchuria are already heavily populated. The areas that aren't are because the East Asians don't want to live there.

That doesn't mean the British can't grab control. If you get a British Alaska, you might get continued movement East from fur traders and fishermen. A later war with Russia and a fur company lobby could see it ceded if Russia is curbstomped enough.
 
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Manchuria was fairly open until late in the game, but the presence of Japan and China heavily weighs against any such scenario. If the Chinese had 3-5 states going and had essentially left Manchuria to its own devices.... perhaps.
 
Manchuria was fairly open until late in the game, but the presence of Japan and China heavily weighs against any such scenario. If the Chinese had 3-5 states going and had essentially left Manchuria to its own devices.... perhaps.

Compared to China proper maybe, but compared to North America or the River Plate? I remain to be convinced.
 
The area isn't as temperate as you seem to think. It's much more like an Alaskan-style climate:

http://www.climate-charts.com/images/world-temperature-map.png

I'm not sure that Annual average temperature is *everything* here, but it is probably most of it. Although there are areas of Canada as cold as the area around the Sea of Okhotsk, they weren't necessarily settler colonies. So we go with what the English did for really cold areas... The Okhotsk Sea Company is TTL's twin to the Hudson's Bay Company. While the HBC brings back Beaver to England, the OSC brings back *Sable*.

The Dutch had mapped the Sea of Okhotsk at least somewhat by in the 1640s and the HBC wasn't founded until the 1670s, it is at least possible.

The OSC's main Headquarters is chosen to be somewhere that the Native tribes would have more difficulty getting to: Sakhalin, with trading posts all around the Sea of Okhotsk. As part of the Great Game, Britain ends up losing all of the area on Asia Proper, but Sakhalin stays British sort of like Newfoundland.
 
So any ideas on a TL where the English/British end up with some part of OTL Russian Far East *as a Settler Colony*?

My TL, Vive la Francewank (link in my signature) has a British Siberia. How's that for you? :p

Might as well post my latest map (world, 1855):

World Map (1855).png
 
The problem I see it is that the British are going to have to do this in the EIGHTEENTH century, or the Russians will already have claimed it all and planted colonies.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
The problem I see it is that the British are going to have to do this in the EIGHTEENTH century, or the Russians will already have claimed it all and planted colonies.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

True. If the British haven't gotten a toehold by at the *latest* 1740, I don't think it happens.
 
True. If the British haven't gotten a toehold by at the *latest* 1740, I don't think it happens.

What about a collapse of Russia due to Dynastic entaglements or something along those lines? Say full Civil War between Peter and those who oppose his reforms or something along those lines?
 
Would Britain being(more involved) involved in the Russian-Japanese war work.

Given that Japan didn't take any areas on the Mainland that were ethnic Russian, I'm not sure that a British-Japanese Alliance takes any more area on the Mainland and even if they do, I doubt that the British get any of it. More likely might be adjustments on the Border with Afghanistan...
 
What about a collapse of Russia due to Dynastic entaglements or something along those lines? Say full Civil War between Peter and those who oppose his reforms or something along those lines?

Depends, how much do the Swedes and Poles get involved? Peter I managed to raise Russia to being one of the European Powers, as long as Russia stays there, Russia definitely expand to the Pacific.

While I did like "Vive La Francewank", does anyone have non-ASB TL Russiascrew along those lines?

Randy
 
I like the idea and hope to read more as it develops!

The issue that occurred first to me is that the Primorskiy region (in a wider sense) had been claimed, at least unofficially and carelessly, and with not a great deal of direct control or penetration, by both Russians and Manchus -- from back in the days the British were still dealing with Cromwell and wondering where India was. Any later British attempts to claim this region are going to trigger significant responses from one if not both of those powers.

Which is not an objection; not at all. All I mean is that this stretch of real estate is definitely not terra nullius (sp?), even by the standards of the ages of exploration and of imperialism.
 
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