British *Nazism

It was inevitable.

Now, what are the defining characteristics of British fascism? Not Silver Shirt copycats, but genuine British Naziism? I can think of a few points:

1. Celts are untermenschen. The hardy Anglo-Saxons were given these islands, by Jingo, and no dirty Irishmen deserve to inhabit it. Exceptions may be granted to the Scots, but probably not the Welsh.

2. Expect a whole corpus of myths and analogies based on King Arthur, and medieval English history in general. France may be viewed as 'rightful British territory', given the way they used to own it.

Anything else?
 
It was inevitable.

Now, what are the defining characteristics of British fascism? Not Silver Shirt copycats, but genuine British Naziism? I can think of a few points:

1. Celts are untermenschen. The hardy Anglo-Saxons were given these islands, by Jingo, and no dirty Irishmen deserve to inhabit it. Exceptions may be granted to the Scots, but probably not the Welsh.

I see a more racist view of the Empire being one of the cornerstones of British Nazism, as opposed to presecution of the celts. There may be crackdowns on different languages (welsh, cornish etc) within Britain, but it isn't like the celts are really that much of an identifiable ethnic minority. The exception is Ireland, which will probably be dealt with very harshly with systematic black-and-tans style oppression.



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Expect a whole corpus of myths and analogies based on King Arthur

This is very interesting - I can see the round table being the central image of the party, with its obvious relevance to Arthur as well as the implications of social justice and equality. Perhaps it takes the place of the swastika.
 
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It was inevitable.

Now, what are the defining characteristics of British fascism? Not Silver Shirt copycats, but genuine British Naziism?

Well I'd argue that we did see a certain amount of authentically British fascism, it's just that the BUF isn't the only place you should be looking. British Fascism needs to be more Establishment, and indeed it was. Jackboots and extermination camps are a bit vulgar; Kipling, Elgar, King and Empire is the way to go. Think Ian McKellan in Richard III.

I did my dissertation on precisely this topic, so once I have time I'll add some more thoughts.
 
I see a more racist view of the Empire being one of the cornerstones of British Nazism, as opposed to presecution of the celts. There may be crackdowns on different languages (welsh, cornish etc) within Britain, but it isn't like the celts are really that much of an identifiable ethnic minority. The exception is Ireland, which will probably be dealt with very harshly with systematic black-and-tans style oppression.

Just another quick point- I think it's a massive mistake to transplant Nazi-style biological racism on any British Fascism. Agressively Unionist in Ireland by all means, but not racist elsewhere. Far more likely is Imperial Federation, Indian Princes and African Kings in the House of Lords and so on; there will be racism of course, but in a more paternal way...
 
Well I'd argue that we did see a certain amount of authentically British fascism, it's just that the BUF isn't the only place you should be looking. British Fascism needs to be more Establishment, and indeed it was. Jackboots and extermination camps are a bit vulgar; Kipling, Elgar, King and Empire is the way to go. Think Ian McKellan in Richard III.

I did my dissertation on precisely this topic, so once I have time I'll add some more thoughts.

Well, if you widen the definition of fascism to include practically any right-wing view, then yes. But if you want a definition that is even vaugely practical and useful, then no.
 
It was inevitable.

Now, what are the defining characteristics of British fascism? Not Silver Shirt copycats, but genuine British Naziism? I can think of a few points:

1. Celts are untermenschen.

2. Expect a whole corpus of myths and analogies based on King Arthur
Arthur was Celtic ruler who fought Saxon savages, so those two myths will be difficult (although not impossible, I'm strong believer in the power of brainwashing) to reconcile.

How'bout Robin Hood figure? Anglo-Saxon freedomfighter, fighting savage French and Norse occupiers? I can even imagine bow and arrow being symbols of British National-Socialists.
 
It was inevitable.

Now, what are the defining characteristics of British fascism? Not Silver Shirt copycats, but genuine British Naziism? I can think of a few points:

1. Celts are untermenschen. The hardy Anglo-Saxons were given these islands, by Jingo, and no dirty Irishmen deserve to inhabit it. Exceptions may be granted to the Scots, but probably not the Welsh.

2. Expect a whole corpus of myths and analogies based on King Arthur, and medieval English history in general. France may be viewed as 'rightful British territory', given the way they used to own it.

Anything else?

I am in two minds on British racism. One the one hand Houston Stewart Chamberlain was British, on the other hand such extremism would be a distinct discontiuity from Britain's history of paternalistic racism. This is not the end of the world - German anti-semitism was quite a discontinuity.

The national myths of France, Germany and Russia lend themselves quite well to the notion that they are the only true source of kultur. The British actually live under few illusions on this front. Although perhaps they can use Shakespeare et al to start kidding themselves.

Nazi economics are fundmentally all about war, autarchy too, but even that's about war. I see absolutely no problem with this.

Expect the British one-party state to spend a lot of time pretending not to be political. It will have a different relationship to civil society than continental dictatorships and influence it in subtler ways, perhaps more through social mores than overt takeover and politicisation.
 
Arthur was Celtic ruler who fought Saxon savages, so those two myths will be difficult (although not impossible, I'm strong believer in the power of brainwashing) to reconcile.

How'bout Robin Hood figure? Anglo-Saxon freedomfighter, fighting savage French and Norse occupiers? I can even imagine bow and arrow being symbols of British National-Socialists.

That sounds good. Here's a very sloppy try at what a Union Jack would like like with the bow and arrow symbol:

Fascist Union Jack.png
 

Oweno

Banned
That sounds good. Here's a very sloppy try at what a Union Jack would like like with the bow and arrow symbol:

I thought that the Fascism in Britain might just keep the Union Jack as is. Because the British love that Jack.
 
I like this, even as I feel I've created a monster. :D

A few ideas:

This ideology should play up Greater Britain. Canada, Australia, all the white settler colonies, will be integrated into Westminster, just as Scotland and Wales are. Depending on the POD, it might not be feasible, but if you get an early enough start, why not? At the very least, the British *Nazis will make it a central element of their ideology.

In terms of religion, I like the King Arthur idea. Also, the Anglican Church is there, a homegrown institution ready to be abused and misused. As part of the Greater British aspect, play up the Archbishop of Canterbury as an Anglican Pope.

Military... well, you've already got the Royal Navy, what else do you need? *Nazi Britain might try to keep a strong naval presence everywhere in the world instead of concentrating on the North Sea and Channel as it did in OTL after Fisher's reforms. Huge armies on the Continental model... well, that's how Europeans do it, but Britain's sword and shield is the RN.

If you want an equivalent to Hitler's hatred of Slavs and Jews (and etc. etc.), the Irish might be a target. I can see *Nazi ideologues claiming Ireland as part of British (proper Anglo-Saxon Protestant British) lebensraum. There's an inkling of precedent in the Nazi-esque squinty, slanted view of history.
 
Well, if you widen the definition of fascism to include practically any right-wing view, then yes. But if you want a definition that is even vaugely practical and useful, then no.

Agreed you have to be careful- I tend towards Sternhell's definition of Fascism, which is “The synthesis of organic nationalism with anti Marxist socialism". You can certainly get the roots of a uniquely British Fascism from this- as I mentioned before, the Tory Diehards of the pre-war period are the key.

The Diehards are often characterised as reactionary fools, but actually they were pretty radical and had a coherent political agenda; the thrust of them- militarism, protectionism and aggressive nationalism combined with an emphasis on the power of the State- certainly have much in common with the later fascist movements. To demonstrate what I mean, here's what Lord Willoughby De Broke said in an article entitled ‘The Tory Tradition’ in a 1911 edition of the National Review;

"We are pledged to reconstruct the constitution, the Navy and the Tariff. In other branches of national life the whole field is open to us. Eugenics and Education… have got to be faced if we would keep our place within the nations. Let us rely on the National character and aim at preserving it by breeding from the best stock… reared… in the ideals of religion and patriotism, equipped with a trade education, protected by a tariff from unfair foreign competition, trained to bear arms… and alive to all the duties of Membership of the British Empire

After the Boer War the Diehards in the House of Lords were at the forefront of attempts to re-invigorate Britain through the expansion of military methods and practices into everyday life. They felt that the regimentation found in the armed services was seen as the best way of instilling efficiency into the population, and proponents thought in terms of militarising previously civilian areas of life such as education, getting students to march and drill to improve their health and enhance their suitability for military service. In 1900 the Association of Headmasters who represented Britain’s Public Schools even passed a resolution calling for pupils to be trained in marching. The use of militarism combined with the drive for “national efficiency” bears many of the hallmarks of the later Fascist movement IMO, as does the attitude that a blood sacrifice would be needed to restore national respect- FS Oliver, a confidante of Lord Milner, said; “Nothing will save us except the sight of red blood running pretty freely; but whether British and German blood or only British I don’t know- nor do I think it matters

Now, on its own this isn't enough to get a British *fascist movement, but with a bit of tweaking and changing of circumstances you could have something very plausibly fascist (and establishment) coming out of Britain in the pre-1914 era. After the war something can be done with this too- this thead on SHWI gives a range of plausible ways.
 
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