British Labour Party As 'Natural Party of Government' in UK

I'd just like to say that Hammo1j's analogy is a great one for British politics, Truly inspired. :D

Perhaps true of Old Labour pre-Blair, but I definitely don't think it's true nowadays with New Labour. Basically their policies at least on economic issues are only very slightly different to the Conservatives. For instance both Blair and Brown could be said to be well to the right of former Tories such as Heath and MacMillian.

It could be argued that now Labour is the more 'conservative' party wanting to perserve long-entrenched parts of the socio-economic system and that the Tories are the ones who are now the 'radical' reformers.
 
Perhaps true of Old Labour pre-Blair, but I definitely don't think it's true nowadays with New Labour. Basically their policies at least on economic issues are only very slightly different to the Conservatives. For instance both Blair and Brown could be said to be well to the right of former Tories such as Heath and MacMillian.

That's what I've been saying... but do you think anyone listens?
:(
 
It could be argued that now Labour is the more 'conservative' party wanting to perserve long-entrenched parts of the socio-economic system and that the Tories are the ones who are now the 'radical' reformers.

The Tories don't have any policies - Slimy George Osborne himself said "I'm not revealing my policies unless we win the election" which either means he doesn't have any or they're just utter junk. Cameron's Conservatives are great at attacking Labour but pretty weak with coming up with their own policies.
 
The Tories don't have any policies - Slimy George Osborne himself said "I'm not revealing my policies unless we win the election" which either means he doesn't have any or they're just utter junk. Cameron's Conservatives are great at attacking Labour but pretty weak with coming up with their own policies.

I agree but you could say that Cameron is at least a little bit of a movement back to the old 'One Nation Toryism' of the past. Both under Thatcher and subsequent leaders the Tories were quite radical in a right-wing way. It could be said that New Labour has worn the 'One Nationism' badge for quite a while
 
I agree but you could say that Cameron is at least a little bit of a movement back to the old 'One Nation Toryism' of the past. Both under Thatcher and subsequent leaders the Tories were quite radical in a right-wing way. It could be said that New Labour has worn the 'One Nationism' badge for quite a while

I don't agree, it seems its too dangerous for the Conservatives to come out with a 'policy' as it doesn't take long for labour to come along and pinch them.
The whole Labour mess over the 10p tax rate, was because Brown wanted to steal the 'Tory' clothes of reducing taxes prior to an election (he coped out of calling one), and now he is the one with 'egg on his face' because his supporters didn't vote Labour at the recent Local Elections.
 
The whole Labour mess over the 10p tax rate, was because Brown wanted to steal the 'Tory' clothes of reducing taxes prior to an election (he coped out of calling one), and now he is the one with 'egg on his face' because his supporters didn't vote Labour at the recent Local Elections.

You what?

How does moving the 20p band down to where the 10p band used to be = reducing taxes?

They've gone up - by a much greater proportion for lower earners than for higher-paid. That's what all the fuss is about. How can you not be aware of that?

It's bizarre. They introduced the 10p band themselves, now they have reversed that.

And now that the government has un-reclassified cannabis - they were the ones who reclassified it to class C in the first place, now (ignoring the report they commissioned) they're making it class B again.

We're moving backwards. Before you know it, the Bank of England will be back under direct government control - and then John Major will become PM again.
 
You what?
How does moving the 20p band down to where the 10p band used to be = reducing taxes?
They've gone up - by a much greater proportion for lower earners than for higher-paid. That's what all the fuss is about. How can you not be aware of that?
It's bizarre. They introduced the 10p band themselves, now they have reversed that.
And now that the government has un-reclassified cannabis - they were the ones who reclassified it to class C in the first place, now (ignoring the report they commissioned) they're making it class B again.
We're moving backwards. Before you know it, the Bank of England will be back under direct government control - and then John Major will become PM again.

How did you read my post, to think that I wasn't aware of the implications for lower paid people? I ought to know - on the 'money' I was getting - before I was made redundant!
That point was - Labour took for granted their hard-core support, but wanted to squeeze the floating voter away from the Conservatives e.g. 'middle-england'. They did that by reducing the standard rate of income tax - which made the newspaper headlines, and the Labour MP's at the time of the anouncement shouted with delight!
However, to reduce the cost to the treasury, he abolished the 10p rate (personally I think the band should be higher and wider), as you said this had the effect of increasing tax for lower earners, which is why there has been such a fuss - and labour voters voting elsewhere in the recent Local elections.
Now Labour MP's are shouting with angst, hence Darling's plan for £600 higher tax allowances - hoping to save the Crewe & Nantwich by-election!
 

hammo1j

Donor
I'd just like to say that Hammo1j's analogy is a great one for British politics, Truly inspired. :D

Thanks 037771: it's very rare to receive such a nice complement for my drunken musings.

The more you look the closer the cycle is just repeating itself with the same characters required repeating themselves

1. The Supersalesman leader of the drink up: the inspirational hedonist


In 1960's it was Harold Wilson with his working man's pipe and the "White Heat of Technology"
In the 1990's it was Tony Blair with his People's Princess and his spin

Both achieved nothing except squander a prosperity created by the sobriety of the previous Tory Government.

2. The fall guy inheritor of the Supersalesman cock ups

In the 1970's it was Jim Callagham with his Winter of Discontent
In the 2000's it is Grodon Brown with the Credit Crunch and Northern Rock

3. The Tory who casts himself in the role of the leader of the piss up but can never quite manage it as well as the Labour boy because he finds it hard to let himself go.

70's One Nation Tory Edward Heath

00's "Call me Dave" Cameron


4. The Strict Displinarian called in to clean up the mess who is eternally hated by all but grudging accepted only to receive later acclaim once the hangover part of the cycle is in place.

80's Margaret Thatcher
10's ???

If the cycle repeats itself Cameron will be doing one term before being replaced by Milliband and then they will do a long slot with a new Maggie.
 
Thanks 037771: it's very rare to receive such a nice complement for my drunken musings.

The more you look the closer the cycle is just repeating itself with the same characters required repeating themselves

1. The Supersalesman leader of the drink up: the inspirational hedonist


In 1960's it was Harold Wilson with his working man's pipe and the "White Heat of Technology"
In the 1990's it was Tony Blair with his People's Princess and his spin

Both achieved nothing except squander a prosperity created by the sobriety of the previous Tory Government.

2. The fall guy inheritor of the Supersalesman cock ups

In the 1970's it was Jim Callagham with his Winter of Discontent
In the 2000's it is Grodon Brown with the Credit Crunch and Northern Rock

3. The Tory who casts himself in the role of the leader of the piss up but can never quite manage it as well as the Labour boy because he finds it hard to let himself go.

70's One Nation Tory Edward Heath

00's "Call me Dave" Cameron


4. The Strict Displinarian called in to clean up the mess who is eternally hated by all but grudging accepted only to receive later acclaim once the hangover part of the cycle is in place.

80's Margaret Thatcher
10's ???

If the cycle repeats itself Cameron will be doing one term before being replaced by Milliband and then they will do a long slot with a new Maggie.


I disagree with a lot of what you say but must say I like your characterisation of certain archtypes in politics!

However the main thing I disagree with you about is the notion that modern New Labour is a very left-wing spendthrift govt. As said before Blair is to the right of Macmillian in economic policies.

Also the notion that the Tories were the only party able to bring economic prosperity to the nations is somewhat false. Any party in govt in the 80's and early 90's would have to do at least some economic reforms. For instance if Labour was elected in 83 under Foot, they would go mad on the socialism for a year or two, before having a 'liberal turn' as happened to Mitterand. They would then have to grudingly adopt some reforms.

For instance in Australia in the 80's most reforms were done by Australian Labor. The only significant difference was the lack of trade union reform (unions got to keep their tripartite consultation structures and the closed shop until the mid 90's) compared to the UK.
 
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