British Invasion of Germany?

To set the scene of this thread:

I'm making a TL in which Oswald Mosley becomes PM of Britain (waits for groans of disapproval,) and in my TL (which is the POD from 'The Leader' btw,) Oswald Mosley becomes PM in 1937.

He puts in force a large scale conscription and steps up military spending so the British Army is actually relatively large-ish compared to OTL in 1938. In 1938 after the German Anschluss of Austria relations between Germany and Britain become extremely strained, with Mosley a powerful speaker outraged that Hitler has simply been allowed to expand.

Later in the year neither Mosley or Hitler wish to meet and so there is no Munich Agreement, not even a meeting. Hitler invades Czechoslovakia on October 1.

With this Mosley declares war on Hitler along with France, and Poland is unsure along with Italy with what to do, (Italy and Britain are in much better relations with agreements made about Malta and Cyprus, and after the Italians were also annoyed by the Anschluss.)

Now to the main point of my thread:

How would this war go? France would probably only go into Germany a little then stop, the invasion of Czechoslovakia wouldn't go well for Hitler and would be much more of a blood bath than the invasion of Poland. But what could Britain do?

As in this TL Britain has more men, better equipment and a more militaristic view on things would an invasion of Germany occur? Such as in the East Frisian Islands? With Germany tied up in trying to take Czechoslovakia could Mosley blockade any trade between Sweden and Germany and convince France to go in deeper into the heart of Germany while the British forces move into Lower Saxony? Could Mosley convince Poland to invade East Prussia to put more strain on Hitlers resources as he'd have to deal with Poland, France, Britain and the Czechs. Italy may be neutral especially if Mosley could 'pay' Mussolini of with say... Some land or joint control of Malta or some such thing.

In the end Hitler would be practically alone in a war on all sides.

I know the beginning bit of this TL is ASB in itself and this whole thing is ASB but what do you all think?
 

Sachyriel

Banned
You left out the Commonwealth. If Britain arms up she can also make money upgrading Canada and the others, so more finances to fight and I'm guessing your TL will be dragging Commonwealth troops into France 20 years after they left.
 
You left out the Commonwealth. If Britain arms up she can also make money upgrading Canada and the others, so more finances to fight and I'm guessing your TL will be dragging Commonwealth troops into France 20 years after they left.

Oh yeah sorry, forgot to say about that. Yes in countries such as Canada there will also be upgrades of weaponry and the like and so they would be used in an invasion of Germany.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Oh yeah sorry, forgot to say about that. Yes in countries such as Canada there will also be upgrades of weaponry and the like and so they would be used in an invasion of Germany.

Tell me a bit more about the upgrades and we'll compare them to German equipment to see if you're wanking too hard. Don't wanna chafe the tommy!
 
Tell me a bit more about the upgrades and we'll compare them to German equipment to see if you're wanking too hard. Don't wanna chafe the tommy!

Not quite upgrades as such (also doesn't help I don't know a lot about weaponry,) but more imports of weapons and also larger factories generating weapons.

For example the Bren gun is put into much larger production, as it was in 1943 in the UK and Canada (1000 a week. In OTL this was being done in 1943.)

So not really upgrades, just a larger production of modern-ish weapons. But if you have any ideas for any non-wankish upgrades please do tell me :) I'm no good with weaponry.
 
Would the Soviets ally with a Fascist nation? Probably.

Is Mosleys government here Nazi or more traditionally fascist.
 
Would the Soviets ally with a Fascist nation? Probably.

Is Mosleys government here Nazi or more traditionally fascist.

Mosleys government is simply fascist, it's more like Italian Fascism. It's a kind of myth that the British Union of Fascists were Nazi (though William Joyce was, he's not in the TL after the Anschluss.) Also Britain isn't really anti-semetic either (again another slight myth.)

And I'm not asking about the Soviets, with no way to Germany it'd have been difficult for them to get to attack. So for the purposes of this for now the Soviets are ignored.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Not quite upgrades as such (also doesn't help I don't know a lot about weaponry,) but more imports of weapons and also larger factories generating weapons.

For example the Bren gun is put into much larger production, as it was in 1943 in the UK and Canada (1000 a week. In OTL this was being done in 1943.)

So not really upgrades, just a larger production of modern-ish weapons. But if you have any ideas for any non-wankish upgrades please do tell me :) I'm no good with weaponry.

I think if you can work in Stalins Pipe Organs (the artillery piece) transformed into something british you can call them Churchill's Cigars.
 

Sachyriel

Banned
Why'd I call them Churchill's Cigars when Oswald Mosley is PM?

Churchill has a number of war related positions in OTL other than PM. If you want to get technical about it I think you could call them Kings Kickers, since the King would be akin to Stalin in fame among his people. However Churchill was something-or-other of munitions in his career, so firing MRLS' and expending a gajillion rockets a day would be something he would notice.

Mosleys Missiles just don't sound as good as Churchills Cigars when you live in OTL, does it?
 
Churchill would still be somewhat prominent, would he not? Always raving about war and fighting and whatnot. And cigars were his thing.

What long cylindrical object can you combine with "Mosley"?
 
Churchill has a number of war related positions in OTL other than PM. If you want to get technical about it I think you could call them Kings Kickers, since the King would be akin to Stalin in fame among his people. However Churchill was something-or-other of munitions in his career, so firing MRLS' and expending a gajillion rockets a day would be something he would notice.

Mosleys Missiles just don't sound as good as Churchills Cigars when you live in OTL, does it?

Churchill would still be somewhat prominent, would he not? Always raving about war and fighting and whatnot. And cigars were his thing.

What long cylindrical object can you combine with "Mosley"?

You have good points. Churchill's Cigars it is!
 
Anyway back to the point of this thread.

How do you think Britain would've invaded Germany? An amphibious attack on it's northern shores? Or through France/Italy?
 

wormyguy

Banned
I doubt the Commonwealth would go along with a Fascist Britain. They would probably suspend their membership until the Mosley government was out.

Also, the POD for a Mosley victory in 1937 would be drastic enough that the OTL Munich Crisis is almost certainly butterflied away.
 
Last edited:

Sachyriel

Banned
Anyway back to the point of this thread.

How do you think Britain would've invaded Germany? An amphibious attack on it's northern shores? Or through France/Italy?

I thought Italy was playing it cautiously. They probably don't want British and French troops going through to attack Germany because they'd want to stay out of it, for now at least. I don't suppose the Anglo-French alliance has a term for blitzkrieg just yet, So I think you could work the dual-front war (Poland aa well right?) and try to avoid Dieppe-style (or even Overlord ones) raids on the coast, focusing on blockading.

How is Greece getting along with her neighbors?

I doubt the Commonwealth would go along with a Fascist Britain. They would probably suspend their membership until the Mosley government was out.

Also, the POD for a Mosley victory in 1937 would be drastic enough that the OTL Munich Crisis is almost butterflied away.

Commonwealth nations can have similar governments or popular opinon for supporting Britain.
 
Would America ally with Facist Britain?

I could only assume they stay neutral throughout the whole war unless attacked, which also brings something up would japan ally with Britain or Germany?
 
What long cylindrical object can you combine with "Mosley"?

Well he was a notorious womaniser. ;)

This doesn't work for me. Mosley was isolationalist and keen on making the commonwealth an economic powerhouse. He was anti-war and would have no desire to send Britons off to die for some obscure East European country (again). He was an admirer, first of Mussolini and later of Hitler, but unlike both.

There was a current of anti-semitism flowing through the BUF, but broken shop windows, occasional beatings, special taxes and being asked to leave social establishments (Golf Clubs and Chambers of Commerce etc) was likely to be the limit.

British re-armament came as a realisation that Germany was a growing threat to peace and commenced from 1935-ish. I doubt Mosley saw Hitler as a threat, more likely a new expanding market (Picture Hitler's problems if he'd bought British planes and tanks instead of designing his own). In OTL Britain struggled economically to re-arm. Presuming Mosley's economic policies paid off, then this wouldn't be a problem.

For this TL to work you need someone who sees Britain as part of Europe and who is also not so passive as the then administration. Churchill is the obvious choice or perhaps Eden, I just don't see Mosley as your man.

I'm also curious as to how Mosley becomes PM as the BUF never managed to produce an MP and membership had been in rapid decline since 1936.
 
Last edited:
The problem for the Commonwealth would be that the war may well be seen as Mosley's War, and might open up the divide that the non-abdication of the king brought about.

British forces haven't got much chance in the Baltic due to the Belt, and the relative ease of setting up a German defensive perimiter there. However, a lot of the German trade is through coastal shipping down the Norwegian coast, so there's more chance here, albeit with violations of neutrality more likely. British pressure on Norway may work better than in OTL, though - I don't know how Edward VIII got on with his Norwegian cousins ?

There would also be scope for support for a coup against Hitler, maybe for example Mussolini supports another Nazi faction, presumably Goering being the man with the best chance here.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Top