British Florida: the TL

[durante]

Lack of slave labour after abolition, combined with the glut in cotton production, and compensation paid to former planters probably leads to an earlier investment in primitive industrialization and mechanization.

With bales of cotton on the docks and declining prices, the former planters have an incentive to try to mechanize and create a modest textile manufacturing industry, assisted by the proliferation of railways, canals, and steam-powered boats and sawmills.

IOTL there was also a movement of planters from the Chesapeake area into Florida as the soils became exhausted; ITTL this movement is likely replaced by West Indian planters, including those receive compensation for slaves, coming north to Florida for similar reasons.

The Sugar Duties Act would accelerate this (which removed protections for British-colony produced Sugar). The act was passed IOTL in 1846.

The repeal of the Navigation Acts occurred in 1849 (which required all trade with Britain and her colonies to be conducted via British or colonial ships, kind of the equivalent of the Jones Act).

And, most importantly to Florida, duties on other agricultural products were reduced in 1853 (including cotton), and eliminated in 1860.

All these acts are going to undercut the plantation economy, leading to lower economic growth but also incentivizing mechanization and industrialization.

The acts are also part of a trend toward Free Trade and "Little England" sentiments which increasingly see colonies as a drain on the resources of the mother country.

At the same time, perhaps as a result, there is an increased call for "Responsible Government" - that is, a colonial cabinet appointed by the elected colonial lower house, rather than the appointed upper house.

 

[durante]

In doing research on sporting developments and leisure activities for the back end of the 19th century,
I found out that, in Canada, the upper classes derisively referred to lower class athletes as "Rowdies"

I wonder if that's going to come up again.

 

[durante]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/East_and_West_Florida_1803_Cary_Map.png

Ok, image is too big to add here, but I think it's a great map. It was made by (American) John Cary in 1803, after the Louisiana Purchase but when Florida (below the 31st parallel north) still belonged to Spain.

It shows the American claim to everything west of the Perdido, (although ITTL the area north of 31 is explicitly left to Britain by the Treaty of Paris 1783).

It looks like an alt-history map to me for a few reasons ("Chatham Bay" in the south), but mainly because the OTL Indian River is called the "Hillsborough River", on the other side of the Peninsula from OTL Hillsborough County.

It appears these are the names as used by the British (Dartmouth Lake is another one, OTL Lake George), so a good chance that they would continue to be used ITTL in instances where they were changed OTL.

And of course, "Jacksonville" could have almost any name but Jacksonville.

 

[CeeJay]

Words of warning, I'm not American so I'm deep diving into some areas of history that I'm not overly familiar with.

Andrew Jackson sucks.

Heh, there's a reason I went out of my way to kill his ass dead in my Palmera TL.

Enjoying this so far! Look forward to more.

 

[revachah2]

Oh neat my family is from here on both sides here’s two posts that may be useful:

You touched on this already:

What if the Loyalists trekked west after the American Revolution? And became white savages of the frontier?

What if going to Canada and Britain, the Loyalists had headed west towards Louisiana territory and beyond after the U.S. won its independence? I'm inspired by the Boer Trekkers, the Wilderness Walk from For Want of a Nail. Alternatively, what if they went to where Tecumseh's Northwest...

www.alternatehistory.com

This one will provide a more accurate picture of The Florida parishes/North Shore, Pearl River + Harrison and Hancock County Mississippi

WI: No Treaty of Fontainebleau 1762?

I would think it would not affect the outcome on the eastern seaboard, but it very well could effect exactly where the US western boundary is fixed. UK power projection into Mississippi, Illinois, western tennessee, western Kentucky and Wisconsin May be stronger than US. This was the sort of...

www.alternatehistory.com

 

[sarahz]

So what's more likely? The British offering Creeks compensation for their slaves? Or abolition leading to the Creeks becoming pro-American?

Depends how much Britain values their potential for defending Florida against the US. Personally i think the British might think buying native troops worth spending money on.

 

[durante]

Because the Loyalist planters were so predominately from the South Carolina & Georgia low country, the plantation society that they developed up and down the banks of the Lower St John's River was very much an extension of Lowcountry culture, with the culture of the black population an extension of the Gullah-Geechee culture. This area experiences a "cotton boom" relatively earlier, as it is the location of Levett's Long-Staple cotton (which doesnt need a 'gin for processing), as well as the Haitian revolution driving up prices and the ongoing industrial revolution increasing demand.

This contrasted with West Florida. The northern portion was populated almost exclusively by Choctaws, Creeks and their slaves prior to the American revolution, although it would receive the bulk of the backcountry "late-Loyalists" in the years leading up to the second war.

West Florida's land is suited to short-staple cotton; the 'gin made necessary for this is patented in 1794 and spread slow by today's standards, so the "cotton boom" in West Florida starts a few years later (maybe 5-10).

Coastal West Florida had few planters before the boom; the West Florida cotton boom coincides with the refugees fleeing Haiti (and many of them being expelled from Cuba in 1809).

The triracial creole population is concentrated around the Biloxi-Pensacola area; the planter class that develops in the coastal area is perhaps equal parts Lowcountry Loyalist and Saint-Dominican refugee.

The process of establishing the plantation economy of the Gulf Coast leads to an "Africanization" of the area.

Because of the costs involved in travel from east to west Florida at the time, and because the Saint-Dominicans came with few slaves but imported many, the black population of the West Florida Gulf Coast has a unique culture representing dozens of African nations and regional African-American, Antillean and West Indian cultures.

Cotton depletes soil quickly, however, and this means that by 1815 East Florida is already seeing a decline in its long-staple production; there is a push that sees many second generation St John's River area planters move down the East Coast or push southwest toward the gulf into virgin land; but most commonly, especially as the West Florida lands become depleted in the 1820s, these planters move into "Middle Florida", between the Apolachicola and Suwanee rivers, which previously had been settled almost exclusively by displaced east-Muskogean speaking indigenous groups and runaway slaves, a grouping that evolved the ethnic identity "Seminole".

(The British response to the Seminoles is to try to fix them in place in reserves through a series of one-sided treaties, rather than pushing them ever further southward down the peninsula as OTL.)

That Middle Florida was settled primarily after immigration from the USA had been banned and the trans-Atlantic slave trade formally ended meant it developed it's own distinct culture.

Its planter class included some Saint-Dominicans but was mainly second generation Loyalist. The black slave population was primarily of the Gullah-Geechee culture but included many slaves imported from the West Indies (primarily Jamaica and Habana).

Freedmen's villages also dot the area. The largest ones would be the most distant from the more settled areas, although the more prosperous ones would be closer.

If Angola is anything to go by:

Angola, Florida - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Gulf Coast from Tampa Bay to Naples and inland to the Kissimmee is likely the area with the largest and longest lasting Freedmen's villages, which gain legality in 1831 and begin attracting freed slaves, runaways, and Free blacks from the USA after abolition.

In West Florida, the planters and freed blacks who leave the region after/during emancipation are disproportionately Anglo, and the Free people of colour arriving in West Florida after 1831 are disproportionately French, so West Florida will cultivate & maintain a distinct creole culture perhaps even longer than New Orleans ITTL.

As an aside: being cut off from the upper river trade will make West Florida and Middle Florida less prosperous ITTL.

It wont have the effect of making a rich area poor, necessarily, but it does mean that some cotton exports that IOTL were floated down the river to the Gulf will ITTL get pulled off at the border (or near it), and put on a pack-wagon to the Mississippi or Atlantic. This will eventually be replaced by a railway, and become less important after trade restrictions and tariffs are pulled down in the second half of the 19th century, but it would change things in the early years.

After emancipation, many of the wealthiest planters will leave for the USA, UK or other colonies, while some from the West Indies will relocate to Florida, primarily St Augustine.

The famine leads to an increase in Irish immigration in the lates 1840s just as the world cotton prices are picking up again (and as the southern-bound Underground Railroad intensifies), so labour is covered without the need for the importation of vast amounts of Indian and Chinese labour at this point - although some undoubtedly do arrive.

I imagine a total non-indigenous population of c. 17,500 in 1783 doubling to about 35,000 by the War of 1812; reaching 50,000 around 1830 and reaching 100,000 around 1860.

St Augustine may surpass Savannah in population as early as 1820 (St Augustine, as a colonial capital, doesnt decline as much as the American Lowcountry due to soil exhaustion).

The two major cities of the South during this time are Charleston and New Orleans, and in many ways Pensacola is a mini-New Orleans and St Augustine a mini-Charleston (with the Saint-Dominicans and New Smyrnans giving St Augustine a distinctive flavour compared to Charleston).

Final note: because Charleston and Savannah together contained more than half of American Jews on the eve of the revolution, I'm going to imagine that the number of Jewish loyalists is proportionate to their population of those states, and say that somewhere between 50 and 100 Sephardi Jews arrive in St Augustine with the other Loyalists. At the time there was already a small Sephardi congregation in Pensacola.

Florida truly would have been one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse British colonies of it's time.

 

[piratedude]

Do you think that with a colony directly bordering the south that Britain would be less supportive of the CSA?
Like, the south was always a proponent of expansion south and west, and definitely feel threatened by the abolitionist foreign country right on their doorstep.

 

[durante]

Do you think that with a colony directly bordering the south that Britain would be less supportive of the CSA?
Like, the south was always a proponent of expansion south and west, and definitely feel threatened by the abolitionist foreign country right on their doorstep.

And also, ITTL the combination of Florida & the West Indies is in more direct competition with the American south, so the British may have a vested interest in ending the institution there (although direct intervention remains incredibly unlikely).

Florida is in an awkward spot where in theory they should be mortal enemies with the CSA, yet they also stand to make a fortune off blockade running.

 

[Diez Mil Cantos]

Will the Bahamas end up merged with Florida for governance à la Cape Breton & Nova Scotia?

 

[durante]

Will the Bahamas end up merged with Florida for governance à la Cape Breton & Nova Scotia?

Yep!

 

[durante]

Chef’s note: I acknowledge that the term “Barbecuing” is commonly used to refer to “grilling” in all parts of the world – ie, heating a grill with a flame, usually to a high heat, and then cooking on that grill, usually for a relatively shorter period of time.

But I am going to be talking about barbecue¸ which traditionally and originally refers to a very specific type of cooking which is generally associated with North America more generally and the Southeast in particular.

This is a cooking method featuring indirect heating. In these circumstances, meat (it’s almost always meat) is cooked by roasting, and/or smoking over wood or charcoal (sorry Hank Hill, no propane here).

The word barbecue enters English from the Spanish word barbacoa, which is believed to be derived from barabicu, which is found in both the Arawak languages of the Caribbean and in the Timucua languages of Florida.

In Hispaniola, early Spanish colonizers encountered a unique style of cooking – involving placing meat, such as a whole hog, on a framework of sticks supported by posts. A pit is dug underneath for a fire made with rich wood, such as hickory, so that the rising heat and smoke slowly cook the meat. The smoky flavour is imbued into the meat, and the longer time and lower heat of this cooking style lead to a tender meat as well.

Regionally, a variety of different rubs and marinades were in use, including maguey cactus and peppercorn.

Barbecue has been a part of the culture of the South since the colonial era. The USA, which is somewhat famous for its distinct regional cultures, did not disappoint in generating several regional varieties.

Of the four main regional styles of barbecue, Carolina barbecue is considered by many to be “the original”. In this area, barbecue refers almost exclusively to pork, and often to a whole hog.

Both “wet” and “dry” style seasonings are common.

While barbecue referred originally to a style of cooking or the device used; jerk originally referred to the marinade or spice used, and it also originated with the Caribbean peoples, the Taino.

Modern Jamaican jerk evolved from traditional Taino cooking styles being developed in the Jamaican interior by the Maroons. The Maroons developed a seasoning which mixed scotch bonnet peppers with allspice (so called by the British because it tasted to them like a mixture of cinnamon, nutmeg, and clove).

Maroons also traditionally smoked or slow-cooked the meat (which was traditionally wild hog but now is much more commonly identified with chicken) over pimento wood.

Beginning in the 1960s, with urbanization, the traditional pit-style cooking of jerk was almost universally replaced by repurposed oil-barrels, which remain common in Jamaica.

 

[durante]

Depends how much Britain values their potential for defending Florida against the US. Personally i think the British might think buying native troops worth spending money on.

Sorry for the late response! Thank you for your input, I wasnt ignoring this comment, I've been thinking deeply about it

 

[durante]

Variations of this indigenous cooking technique were found throughout the Southeast, and were known in the New England colonies by the 1700s.

Hogs are a relatively cheaper source of calories then beef, both because of the caloric conversion rate and because hogs can be left to forage for themselves in forests for additional sustenance or in hard times.

Of course, the more food that is foraged for a hog rather than fed to them, the leaner they will be - making the cooked meat tougher.

So for a variety of converging reasons, barbecue whole hog was a relatively cheap - if labour intensive - way to feed a large number of people. This could be convenient for a special event in the backcountry; or as the go-to method for serving the enslaved workers on the Southern Plantations.

While the cooking techniques and spices involved reflect diverse origins, the obvious must be stated: throughout most of its historical development, most of those involved in the actual work of barbecue, the cutting, roasting, smoking and pit-tending - were African-Americans (and Afro-Floridians), before and after the abolition of slavery.

And it was in this context that the distinctive Floridian barbecue region develops; although there are noted local distinctions within.

The increasingly West Indian and Jamaican-influenced culture of Afro-Floridians converged with established traditions. The distinctive addition of allspice (or a proprietor's blend of cinnamon, nutmeg and clove) to a vinegar/pepper sauce being considered the defining characteristic of "Flurregion Jerk Barbecue".

 

[Belisarius II]

You mean like Saskatchewan, Alberta, those places were also Texased, and do you want to know something.

When there's a Union Jack that doesn't happen.

In otl it's kinda West Floriding than Texas, but that's another story.

Mexico owned Texas, United Kingdom was the primer world superpower.

They'll be absolutely nothing of the sort, unless they'd like to donate everything south of Potomac River to the British Empire.

I think your over playing that idea. The British holding on to Florida depends on the outcome of the War of 1812. Florida was a strategic liability to the British, which is why they were willing to give it back to Spain. It was worth more to the United States then it was to ether the Spanish, or British Empires. Having an active front in Florida would put the States of Georgia, and South Carolina more in play. Between them they had over 25 times the population of East & West Florida, with a far greater industrial base. The Southern militias didn't have the same issues with crossing borders that the militias had on the Canadian Front, and the distances they needed to cover aren't that great.

 

[durante]

An extended British period is a very different proposition from the OTL Second Spanish Period for a variety of reasons, but the most glaring one is transportation:

Most Florida scholars suggest that the road/path from Pensacola to St Augustine was in better condition in 1783 then in 1821.

Of course, the total non-native population during the Spanish period was probably never more than about 3,000.

Nevertheless, they still moved people and products between the two capitals.

There were three main routes between the two capitals, which were the largest and most important communities at the time.

The first route was to "round the Cape", travel via boat from one to the other. This method was quite dangerous, as the shallow and reef-laden waters around the south tip were known as perhaps the most treacherous and dangerous in the Caribbean.

As such, it was only really an option for the larger, more ocean-worthy vessels, which could also carry larger amounts of goods to make up for the longer travel time.

A second method was the overland method. A series of wagon roads and paths would lead one from Pensacola to the fort at St Mark's (south of Tallahassee, almost on the Gulf), and from there eastward to the St John's River, which they may Ford at Palatka or OTL Jacksonville (also "Wacca Pilatka", pilatka meaning "cow ford" in Timucua).

The most common method of travel, however, was to travel by sea to the mouth of the Suwannee river (OTL Suwannee, Florida). The Suwannee and one of its tributaries, the Santa Fe, are navigable by small boat or barge, northeast from Suwannee to the Santa Fe, and then easterly to near the Santa Fe's source, just to the northwest of OTL Alachua, Florida (and somewhat further northwest than OTL Gainesville).

From that point, it was pack horse and wagon to Palatka. From Palatka, you can ford the St John's and head on to St Augustine, or pack on barges headed up and down the river.

These roads, and the King's Road from the border with St Mary's, Georgia, south to New Smyrna, would be much busier and better maintained IOTL.

After the Louisiana purchase, and before the War of 1812, the route from the St John's River to the Santa Fe-Suwannee and out to the Gulf, would also become the primary method of transporting people and goods between Charleston or Savannah and New Orleans. These flows are restricted by post-War politics, reduced by increased settlement in the Southeast which makes the overland journey within the USA safer, and ultimately by railways, the first transportation method of bulk products that could compete with sea travel.

OTL Suwannee wouldve become a significant trade centre and port of the Panton, Leslie and Company (and later Forbes Company). As Panton, Leslie and Forbes are all Scottish, my favoured alt names for Suwannee are 'Dunedin' and 'Inverness', both names that appear (relatively) nearby.

St Augustine's location as a port is pretty questionable, because of the difficulty in navigating in and out of the shallow and shifting ocean inlet, and because strictly speaking it's not on the St John's River which is the main traffic outlet of the area.

There are two pre-industrial fording sites over the St John's onto the narrow strip of land that contains St Augustine, the two aforementioned Cowfords/Palatkas. (Jacksonville to the north and Palatka to the south).

IOTL, a St Augustine largely abandoned by the English remained the capital of West Florida until American administration. Americans travelling down the coastal road from Georgia and Carolina toward St Augustine would converge at the Cow Ford, and "Jacksonville" developed at this strategic location, which is closer to the mouth of the St John's.

However, the Americans did not have to consider an American invasion when laying out their town site.

During the Wo1812, the British will find that St Augustine's less than ideal port location will make it, in fact, an excellent fort and capital location- its virtually unassailable by sea (in an era with British naval dominance, anyway) and a few well positioned forts means any would be attackers have to narrowly file towards the settlement in a very tempting line.

The settlement on the north side of the St John's River at the Cow Ford (OTL Jacksonville) is likely to be burned to the ground during the Wo1812.

Its location is invaluable, but it is my belief that the "downtown core" would be shifted across the river, to what is now San Marcos, Florida.

This might seem like a trivial difference, but it's now on that same spot of land as St Augustine, and only about 25 miles away. IOTL, Jacksonville's population is about 1/3 on the south side and about 2/3 on the north side. If we were to flip that, we would see the area between Jacksonville and St Augustine as a highly urbanized and developed area.

The two cities are twin anchors of the capital region, and I like the idea of a King's College being built in just outside of San Marcos, with the "Cow Ford" being renamed the much more eloquent "Oxford" /s

As for the alt Wo1812 itself, I've come to a few more concrete conclusions:

West Florida can be split into 4 regions, with the dividing line between North and South being 31 and the dividing line between east and west being the Mobile river (or approximately the Miss-Ala border).

The northwest portion is Choctaw territory. The Northeast portion is Creek territory. The southeast area is the focus of British settlement, the southwest area the focus of American settlement.

At the outbreak of the War, Americans from New Orleans are likely to quickly take and hold the southwest area - and use it to move on to Biloxi and Mobile.

The Creek IOTL were divided between pro-American and pro-British (perhaps more accurately anti-American) factions; this resulted in a Civil War, before the victorious anti-American faction launched into war against the Americans. The result was almost the complete loss of Creek lands. These two factions evolved without the British technically even present in the region OTL, so ITTL, I imagine the Creek to be broadly pro-British. Because of proximity and less conflict, the Creek are more successful against the Americans - at least in the areas of West Florida.

The Choctaw IOTL were pro-American. ITTL, their lands are split between the Americans and British, so they suffer a similar fate of the Creeks - a civil war breaks out as American troops cross the Mississippi, and due to the chaos and the lack of British in the region, the area is likely eventually lost to the Americans.

I could see potentially another American capture of Mobile and another successful British defense of Pensacola.

I'm even kind of thinking this War ends the opposite of OTL - with a "Battle of Pensacola" where Andrew Jackson fails to take the city. (I would love to kill him off and make Davy Crockett President, I think that's a masterstroke of alternate history. But I won't, for means of keeping within the vaguely pessimist/realism I'm aiming for, and to try to differentiate from Palmera).

So War ends, Status Quo Antebellum.

But what was the Status Quo?

Surely, the Americans will argue, "Status Quo before the war was that we claimed everything West of the Perdido. Still do."

And on that basis, may refuse to withdraw from the southwest portion of West Florida. After all, what's Britain gonna do? Send an army to take Mobile?

I also think around this time, that the USA will begin looking at "North" west Florida, and the original Treaty of Paris 1763, and thinking, "officially neutral "Indian Country" can be begrudgingly accepted, but British colony? No."

Furthermore, there will be thousands of Creek and Choctaw refugees, and their slaves, which are fleeing into the the eastern parts of west Florida - or even to East Florida, and expecting British care.

Even if American troops withdraw from the Northern parts, American settlers can't really be controlled at this time.

The British, having lost Mobile twice in 30 years to powers they consider to be their inferior, consider it indefensible. And continued support for a neutral or Indian buffer state is starting to backfire as the British are increasingly called on to support their indigenous allies in ways which interfere with their own designs.

There won't be an Adams-Onis Treaty because the Americans don't border the Spanish. The Treaty of 1818 may go unsigned temporarily as the British and Americans can't agree to terms (the Americans wont want to settle the Northern border without settling the southern one.)

But at some point, the USA negotiates a treaty with Mexico that gives the USA Spain's old claims to the PNW. Britain recognizes Mexico around the same time.

It's generally believed in the PNW that the British could've got the Columbia River as the border in 1849 had they been more forceful in negotiations.

On that basis, I do really think there would be, in the early 1820s, a treaty which set the border between Canada and the USA (who knows, maybe a different parallel? 48th? 50th?), while also settling the Oregon Boundary dispute permanently, and abandoning, er - I mean "acknowledging the independence of" her former Native allies in the southeast.

The John Cary map has a couple of twists - it actually uses the Mobile river as the border, not the Perdido, and I maintain the possibility that the 31st parallel is used east to the proclamation line.

 

[piratedude]

I would love to kill him off and make Davy Crockett President, I think that's a masterstroke of alternate history.

Ngl id love that too

 

[durante]

As mentioned previously, most of Bahamas Loyalist settlement is butterflied ITTL by retaining Florida.

This means the Bahamas will have a population similar to the Turks and Caicos Islands at the time, and the combined population (at the time, they were one colony) is smaller than Bermuda's.

I think the Bahamas is likely to receive some Black Loyalist migrants ITTL, perhaps after Free Blacks in East Florida face a similar reception to the one they received IOTL Nova Scotia.

In addition, the Bahamas was chosen in 1808 as the location to drop off liberated Africans who had been intercepted by the British and Americans in the West Indies (Habana being one of the major import centers), to save the expense of a journey back to Africa.

I see no reason why this wouldnt be the case ITTL.

Once the British abolished slavery entirely in 1833, (and therefore they no longer had a West Indian slave trade of their own), American slave ships (often travelling to New Orleans) became fair targets for British anti-slavers, and the British and Americans would stop co-operating in anti-slavery efforts until after the American Civil War.

Due to the location and soil, however, the Bahamas and TCI wont support a large population or economy in this era. Many Bahamians, liberated Africans or their descendants would find work in Florida, especially after the abolition of slavery.

IOTL, growing resentment at the neglect felt by the Turks and Caicos Islanders led to their request being granted to become a separate colony in 1848. At the time their population was about 6,000 of the archipelago's 33,000 souls.

ITTL, the population will be maybe 5 to 6,000 out of about 15,000-16,000. So maybe there is less neglect and less resentment, and certainly less enthusiasm in London to split the colonies.

In 1874, Turks and Caicos was officially "attached" to Jamaica, completing the process of separation from the Bahamas, and the reason is because of mail.

Specifically, the steam ship service routes of mail vessels in the era. At the time, TCI mail was routed through Nassau (in the Bahamas), which is fine on the surface because of fairly frequent Provo-Nassau shipping.

However, Nassau-London shipping at the time was very infrequent and involved going through Bermuda and/or Halifax; the return voyage went the same way. Consequently, TCI had some of the worst mail service in West Indies, in an era in which mail the primary method of communication, and often, transportation.

This led to TCI requesting being attached to Jamaica, so their mail service would be routed through Kingston. Provo-Kingston service was also frequent, but Kingston-London was far better served in this era than Nassau-London.

However, ITTL, Nassau-London service is irrelevant, because St. Augustine-Nassau service will be frequent. And by the 1870s, St Augustine-London service will be far more frequent than Nassau was OTL.

Therefore, I believe the circumstance that led to TCI first being separated from the Bahamas and then attached to Jamaica both wont exist ITTL.

I think it's possible that they are made a separate colony, but it will either be merged back into the Bahamas in the 1870s (TCIs population barely grew at all during the meantime), or is attached to Florida, or both.

In any event, Bahamas wasnt considered economically viable by 1911, and being taken over by Canada was considered, although the Colonial Office apparently didnt want to merge a "white" Dominion with a "black" colony.

ITTL, both TCI and the Bahamas will be attached to Florida by 1911, and would probably remain part of Florida.

 

[piratedude]

What would the merged colonies be called? Just 'Florida and the Bahamas'?

And when do you think independence would come? About the same time as canada or the Bahamas IOTL?

 

[durante]

What would the merged colonies be called? Just 'Florida and the Bahamas'?

And when do you think independence would come? About the same time as canada or the Bahamas IOTL?

I think it'll be "Florida". The Bahamas (including TCI) will have around 25,000 people by 1911. Whether it will be considered a District, Territory, or Province I don't know.

As for independence? I'm not clear on that either. But my very next thread mark will be political developments on the pathway to responsible government.