British False Flag brings the USA into WWII

[Super_Cool]

I was recently watching an episode of Deep Space 9, the episode In the Pale Moonlight. As Trek fans should know, there is a war going on, with the Federation and the Klingons fighting the Dominion. Because of significant losses, Captain Sisko and Garek create a false flag (faking evidence of an attack and then killing an innocent general) to bring in a powerful neutral, the Romulans, into the alliance which ultimately defeats the Dominion.

It got me thinking, could something like this have happened OTL in WWII (Germany = Dominion; UK = Federation; USSR = Klingons; USA = Romulans)?

i.e. Could/Would the British have resorted to a false flag to bring the USA into the war? What would be the reaction if it failed? If discovered later, how would history judge British actions?

 

[Son of Leman Russ]

First thing first, if the deception isn't revealed at all, things will go as per OTL, but perhaps Churchill cannot sleep well afterwards...

And if the deception is revealed after ww2, but it was on the internal side of CIA, expect a colder relationship with the British, perhaps US agitators do their job for Canada and Australia to declare themselves as independent Republic, and much less US British partnership, and don't even think about trusting the Brits anymore

If the decaption is revealed in public after ww2, holy shit, Hitler, of all man, could be actually vindicated. Heck, the German attacks on US ships is a deception by Brits, they could be the one actually setting the holocaust with helps from that damn commies!!!

And last if the deception is revealed in ww2, US will soon make peace with Germany in exchange of German renouncing their alliance with Japan, US then soon do a punitive invasion on British islands!

 

[Simon]

The main problem with that idea is the risk/reward factor. The US was already friendly towards the UK as illustrated by actions such as Lend-Lease or their naval patrols in the western Atlantic, do the British really want to potentially risk that if it ever got out? The closest I can think of is the rumoured story that they fed Hitler the idea that the US was going to declare war on Germany after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Hitler being who he is takes offence at the idea as he's the only one that's allowed to declare war on other countries without warning and decides to beat them to the punch.

 

[Nae'Blis]

First thing first, if the deception isn't revealed at all, things will go as per OTL, but perhaps Churchill cannot sleep well afterwards...

And if the deception is revealed after ww2, but it was on the internal side of CIA, expect a colder relationship with the British, perhaps US agitators do their job for Canada and Australia to declare themselves as independent Republic, and much less US British partnership, and don't even think about trusting the Brits anymore

If the decaption is revealed in public after ww2, holy shit, Hitler, of all man, could be actually vindicated. Heck, the German attacks on US ships is a deception by Brits, they could be the one actually setting the holocaust with helps from that damn commies!!!

And last if the deception is revealed in ww2, US will soon make peace with Germany in exchange of German renouncing their alliance with Japan, US then soon do a punitive invasion on British islands!

The US would have a hard time invading the British isles frankly. And the dominions would not just proclaim themselves republics. If the US attacked Britain, the British would promptly make peace with the Germans (who just want to finish off the Soviets) and probably make a peace with Japan promptly, it would be a long hard war.

 

[Jinx999]

This occurs in "The Foresight War", as Hitler doesn't conveniently declare war or the US. British intelligence deliberately let slip that a certain transport ship is carrying important munitions, when it's really carrying volunteer nurses. My immediate reaction was "Christ, this is going to come out and then things are going to go to hell."

 

[Super_Cool]

In OTL, didn't Britain give false evidence of German involvement in Latin America to rile up the USA? I think if the British are desperate, they could do something like this.

 

[Jinx999]

In OTL, didn't Britain give false evidence of German involvement in Latin America to rile up the USA? I think if the British are desperate, they could do something like this.

Are you referring to the Zimmerman telegram?

If so, that was the first world war. It was also true, as confirmed by the German ambassador (yes - VERY dumb of him).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimmermann_Telegram

 

[sharlin]

Lets be honest the US could not be more hostile to the UK after the war (Suez, Lend lease debt not erased, rabid anti-imperalism etc) without declaring war so even if this was found that a false flag brought the US into the war I doubt it would do much more than just lead to even more chilly relations.

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

In OTL, didn't Britain give false evidence of German involvement in Latin America to rile up the USA? I think if the British are desperate, they could do something like this.

They put a favorable spin on some of the information they pased along to the US. That is human nature and you expect it. However I've only seen a par tof the info shared so maybe there is something else. Beyond that there was enough low level German or nazi activity in Latin America the Brits hardly needed to fake any thing.

 

[Phyrx]

In OTL, didn't Britain give false evidence of German involvement in Latin America to rile up the USA? I think if the British are desperate, they could do something like this.

"On 27 October 1941 Roosevelt stated in a speech 'I have in my possession a secret map, made in Germany by Hitler's government, by planners of the new world order. It is a map of South America and part of Central America as Hitler proposes to organize it' into five countries under German domination. The speech amazed both the United States and Germany; the latter claimed the map was a forgery. While British Security Coordination indeed forged the map and arranged for discovery by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, it likely was based in part on a real, public map of boundary changes German agents used to persuade South American countries to join the New Order." - Wikipedia

 

[Hoist40]

"On 27 October 1941 Roosevelt stated in a speech 'I have in my possession a secret map, made in Germany by Hitler's government, by planners of the new world order. It is a map of South America and part of Central America as Hitler proposes to organize it' into five countries under German domination. The speech amazed both the United States and Germany; the latter claimed the map was a forgery. While British Security Coordination indeed forged the map and arranged for discovery by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, it likely was based in part on a real, public map of boundary changes German agents used to persuade South American countries to join the New Order." - Wikipedia

I actually have a book which was part of that propaganda effort
Its called "Total Defense" written by Clark Foreman and Joan Raushenbush published by Doubleday in 1940.

Its a strange book, its format is like a thick memo pad with the first half a fake written by the "Reichburo for Political Economy" to "The Fueher, Her Hitler", subject, "The Economic Conquest of the Americas”

The first half is on line in a word document

www.nationoftexas.com/docs/hitler.doc

The second half is Foreman and Raushenbush telling how to counter the German effort, many of the counters seem very much like what the Germans are being accused of, buying up stock, bonds, making exclusive trade deals, etc.

I have not found the second half on line.


Here is a scan of the cover

http://imageshack.com/a/img135/7308/totaldefensebe9.jpg

 

[Amakan]

...

And last if the deception is revealed in ww2, US will soon make peace with Germany in exchange of German renouncing their alliance with Japan, US then soon do a punitive invasion on British islands!

Regardless of how plausible this is (which I don't think it is) I still want to see a TL involving this.

 

[LNSS]

FDR was looking for excuses to enter the war, so he wouldnn't mind

 

[Unknown]

IMO, if this false flag was revealed during the war (which is not outside the realm of possibility), the U.S. would stay neutral (no way in hell they are going to ally with Hitler, who Roosevelt really wanted gone) and fight in the Pacific only.