British Empire joins Axis Powers WW2

Hello,

If the UK allied with Germany/Japan in WW2 from a militarily point of view how would it play out?

Lets say WW2 still begins France falls but no Dunkirk, Battle of Britain, Singapore etc. Barabossa still goes ahead as planned but with British forces joining German forces, Pearl Harbor still happens with possibly RAF/RN forces. Germany declares war on America as does the UK.

Would there be any advantages the British Empire had/could bring to the Axis powers to use against the Soviet Union and America? Strong Navy? Forces all over the world? Were British jet engines of significantly higher quality than German ones?

How would the Eastern Front/Pacific theater play out?
 
It's absolutely impossible from a political point of view to have Britan fight alongside Germany against France, let alone join a group like the Axis that they don't lead.

The most you can get is UK joining Germany and Japan in figthing the USSR, only if Stalin strikes first and there are no nazis in Germany. But that requires a set of changes that would completely transform WW2.
 
What WW2? With Britain on their side the war ends when France falls. Germany and the US don't go to war, Japan happily trades with their new Axis allies.
 
If GB has joined Germany in 38/9 then France will join them and they all destroy the USSR in 1939/40/41 (no way can USSR survive v 3/4 great powers without help), USA sits it out in isolation and Japan has no reason to go south with access to GB/Dutch oil......
 
If GB has joined Germany in 38/9 then France will join them and they all destroy the USSR in 1939/40/41 (no way can USSR survive v 3/4 great powers without help), USA sits it out in isolation and Japan has no reason to go south with access to GB/Dutch oil......

Agreed. Germany gets lots of central Europe, central European countries either get swallowed or handed bits of Russia, Britain pushes the Soviets back in parts of central Asia, France... gets to keep their empire I guess? Japan gets material support and a free hand in China, which does significantly worst than in OTL since their only friend is the USSR which has it's own problems. Communism does not come out well in this timeline.

The US wonders how the world went so crazy and continues quietly lording over the western hemisphere.
 
No way! Impossible, British foreign policy was always been about a balance of power on the continent, they won't trade anything for a German dominated Europe. You need to come up with a plausible PoD, which will then result in deciding what happens. Annoying that people just handwave "why" and go straight to what ifs that are completely impossible.
 
This is ASB. The UK would need a fascist coup way before Hitler takes power. So many things would be different, so much flying butter.
 
Soviet agents within the British Commonwealth and in France will cause riots and demonstrations against the current governments supporting the Axis Nations array against the Soviet Union.

There would be a need of the Soviets trying to assassinate any Pro-axis British & French politicans to slowly change the respective populous' feelings towards the Soviets from neutral/sympathetic to outright outrage and anger....
 
The balance of power relied on the British fighting with Germany against an equal alliance. So if the USA or France go communist then this is possible,but this would of course change ww2, as has already been said and the Nazis may be completely averted. What was the chance of an anarchist/ communist France after 1933. I would say unlikely,but I am sure somebody here knows about the French communist movement in the 1930's. As for East Asia a stronger Soviet Union and Japan could force the to British ally with Japan, after all they were allied in ww1. What would the PoD's be- no idea, perhaps have a socialist,(it need not be communist) government in France after ww1 which seeks close relations with the USSR. Perhaps have the socialists win the 1919 election- probably possible if some sort of scandal breaks out.
 
POD. Molotov-Ribbentrop negotiations. Hitler insists on a joint attack on Poland with SU in spring 1940. When the time comes, Hitler loses his nerve and Stalin attacks Poland alone despitt the British guarantee...
 
The closest you could get would be a fascist coup regime versus a government in exile, and even that would make things totally unrecognizable from OTL.
 
French policy after WWI was based around basically doing whatever the UK wanted in order to keep them happy and on-side. As part of this, they willingly sold out the Spanish, the Czechs, and anyone else the British weren't willing to support. If the UK isn't going to support Poland, France isn't either, so there is no WWII. Meanwhile, Stalin would do whatever he had to to avoid fighting this alliance. And the US stays happily isolationist.
 
The closest you could get would be a fascist coup regime versus a government in exile, and even that would make things totally unrecognizable from OTL.

I disagree because even being fascist would not turn Britain, a great imperial power at the time, for to its national interests and create the conditions for a german hegemony in Europe.

Doing so requires either extremely stupid political leadership or caricaturally treasonous political leadership. Which would in any case lead to such political leaders being overthrown.
 
There wouldn't be a WWII.

Germany would invade Poland and it would be a localised conflict.

France won't declare war on Germany if there is no UK on its side.

No war in the Pacific either. Japan won't need to invade French Indochina since it would be receiving all its supplies from the British Empire.

All that would probably happen would be a Nazi invasion of the USSR.
 
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If GB has joined Germany in 38/9 then France will join them and they all destroy the USSR in 1939/40/41 (no way can USSR survive v 3/4 great powers without help), USA sits it out in isolation and Japan has no reason to go south with access to GB/Dutch oil......

I think its impossible after a defeat of France, so something like what I proposed is needed and France/Britain is stuck in a war they certainly didn't want. The above is possible, but the diplomacy is very tricky. Britain/France have no reason to let Hitler or Poland take over SU. For this war to play out, you could imagine an Iraq like coalition to get rid of Stalin/Communism...But then what. I imagine Hitler would show less restrain than George Bush Senior....

More likely, the SU manages to broker a deal to get out of it with Britain/France, but they will not like anyone to win in the battle of Germany/Poland vs SU.

I guess a diplomatic solution is possible in this case, buy the situation is so far from OTL that it is a complete mess.
 
If Germany had been able to keep the Polish campaign localized I think they would have sat for about 18 months and then attacked the SU. Hitler really had no interest in going after France or GB. Hitler had said in Mein Kampf that the British Empire was a stabilizing influence in the world and he had no desire to displace them. He also had no desire to have colonial possessions so I believe that if left alone, he would have not interfered with France or GB.

Great Britain on the other hand would have been in a tough spot if Germany attacks the SU. On one hand they hated the Bolsheviks and would have loved to see the Monarchy restored in Russia. But on the other hand they did not want to see a European power become economically stronger then they were. The UK was very Bismarck-tonian in their diplomatic strategy. They worked very hard to keep the major European powers (France, Germany, Russia and Italy) at odds with each other enough to make sure they didn't really advance economically (or militarily).

I just can't see GB ever joining Germany in a war against the USSR, but they would use the opportunity to become the arms dealer to both Germany and maybe the SU. Can you imagine what that would have done for the economy of GB? If they became a net exporter of weapons (or consumer goods) while not at war they would have seen economic growth similar to the US. That would surely have put them in a different situation in say 1945...

Also the far East situation would have remained status quo for Japan. With France, GB and the Dutch having never gone to war they would have had no excuse to go south. they would have had to go north with Germany. They also have to buy arms and supplies from GB.
 
What about the Dominion? Canada, Australia, friggin India. Would we see seperation? Would we see war?There is a mixed talk about the UK and the British Empire here, not sure if the dominion is supposed to be included.

Then there is Egypt, Malta and Cyrpus in Italian sphere of influence. Gibraltar in Spanish sphere. Hong Kong... How would GB keep a hold of its colonies and other territories?
 
Okay then, how would US adjust to facing Britain and Japan in the Pacific?

I mean in military terms, engagements on land and at sea.
 
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