I don't think the elite would be British since it was common pratice at the time to retain the local European noblity to reduce the impact of the change in authority.
British Cuba
- Thread starter Mirza Khan
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I don't think the elite would be British since it was common pratice at the time to retain the local European noblity to reduce the impact of the change in authority.
The reason that Britain only held Havana was because holding Havana was the same as holding all of Cuba, only without the troubles of catching disease from entering in the jungle. Evidence of this is the way that no Spanish counter-attack was made on Havana. Under other circumstances you'd expect that Spanish troops would simply march overland and siege the city, but instead IIRC they simply abandoned the island or refused to leave their garrisons, knowing the island was effectively British. Considering I've seen people talking up the way that Britain would have to drop demands for Florida to keep Cuba (not in this thread, obviously), you get an appreciation for how significant holding just the city of Havana was to Cuba. Whoever owned Havana owned Cuba.
Actually, what I said is entirely true. More to the point, not one of your arguments is actually evidence against mine. Indeed Cuba was rich (if that's what you mean by "doing very well"); indeed it was valuable to Spain; and indeed it was the effective center of the empire.
None of that has the slightest relevance to the historical fact that the brief English administration of Havana allowed a significant economic boom on the island. Nor does it in any way alter the reasons for that boom - that the English were failing to enforce the restrictions Spanish law had placed on the island.
Yeah, dude, get real. It's not "common practice" if the British never actually did it.
No, not really. After the Cuba fiasco, things are going to get tightened up as the Spanish would ensure that nothing like Cuba could happen again. The criollo élite (there really was no mestizo élite anywhere) would be horrified and thus probably stay loyal. Even if that's what deep down inside they don't want, the thought of having part of Spain run by one of Spain's enemies would just send chills down people's spines.
Sorry, I meant criollo, not mestizo. But would they really be so opposed? There's also an established resentment of being excluded by political power the peninsulares, while the British gave power to the conquered in places like Quebec. If they will increase both their economic well-being and their political involvement, how much loyalty will they really have to a distant European state they have never been to?
True, but in the face of a common adversary in Britain, the criollo resentment of the peninsulares becomes trivial in comparison. Particularly since, in the case of Cuba, it actually hits close to home as Cuba is near the Viceroyalty of New Spain. So México City, in this case, is going to be very jittery over the prospect of a British invasion. This means a huge ramp-up in the activities of the Inquisition. This means huge clampdowns to prevent "filthy" thoughts entering people's minds. This means, therefore, that the criollos have to find some accomodation and common ground with the peninsulares. In the point of the view of the Spanish, this would (hopefully) prevent another Cuba situation from forming, as well as leading efforts to "liberate" Cuba.
Of course, the Cubans (and Puerto Ricans - both Cuba and Puerto Rico, for the most part, are essentially joined at the hip and a British capture of Puerto Rico would help make Cuba safer) are going to beg to differ on the matter, but to non-Cuban Spanish Americans, the Cubans essentially are living in a bubble (even if, in private, the criollos are jealous of the Cubans).
I don't see why it would make any more sense than Jamaica in our timeline.
Yes, it is, because Spain regained Cuba in OTL. If the British retained Cuba, then things would be like as I described.
Faeelin
Banned
Why? The impetus and desire for reform would still be there, no? And the rise of the role of the peninsulares was due in part to the bourbon reforms and efforts to centralize the state.
RNG
Banned
How about this?
British keep Cuba. America gets rich but are taxes are increased as a result. American revolution is earlier. Cuba is given to America. Spain gives Florida. French revolution earlier. America is stronger and takes Canada in War of 1812 [different year in this timeline however]. Civil war earlier. South win because of Cuba and America also has to fight off Canadian uprisings. Lincoln is forced out of office. Russia sell Alaska to the South. Europe forces South to give up slavery. Many black people head to North, Alaska, or go to Europe. There is a lot violence. against black people. So much so that this time is called The Black Times [although this term is seen as racist in today's time in this timeline]. The South support Canadian Independence and keep supplies to guerrilla groups. This angers America and another war starts. The South win and Canada is independent, they are given Alaska and North West America, and ex Mexican territory is given to the South.The South fight Spain over Purto Rico and gain all Spainish empire. World War One starts. The South enter early on the side of the allies. America joins Germany. The allies win in America but a stalemate in Europe.Germany helps the white army beat the red army but force a system of governing like Britain with a monarch and a parliament, Germany changes to this but have a Military Parliament instead as a upper house. A demilitarized zone is set up between France and Germany. America aswell. This does not last long and France and Germany fight. The South and Britain does not want a war. France loses and Germany gains many French. Britain and The South decide to make friends with Germany and even blame World War One on France and say that they should of been on Germany side. Austria Hungary falls due to disagreement on a new governing style. Ottoman empire falls and many ethnic countries are created like Kurdistan. Japan fights China. Germany, Britain, the South, and Japan make a agreement not to fight. France does not and fights Japan losing the remaining empire in Asia. Spain and Italy are still fascist. This inspires France and many French racist party get into power but no party takes over the country. Mussolini still falls without a war. Spain are the same. Japan invades Russia due to China signing peace treaty with no more land to take.
British keep Cuba. America gets rich but are taxes are increased as a result. American revolution is earlier. Cuba is given to America. Spain gives Florida. French revolution earlier. America is stronger and takes Canada in War of 1812 [different year in this timeline however]. Civil war earlier. South win because of Cuba and America also has to fight off Canadian uprisings. Lincoln is forced out of office. Russia sell Alaska to the South. Europe forces South to give up slavery. Many black people head to North, Alaska, or go to Europe. There is a lot violence. against black people. So much so that this time is called The Black Times [although this term is seen as racist in today's time in this timeline]. The South support Canadian Independence and keep supplies to guerrilla groups. This angers America and another war starts. The South win and Canada is independent, they are given Alaska and North West America, and ex Mexican territory is given to the South.The South fight Spain over Purto Rico and gain all Spainish empire. World War One starts. The South enter early on the side of the allies. America joins Germany. The allies win in America but a stalemate in Europe.Germany helps the white army beat the red army but force a system of governing like Britain with a monarch and a parliament, Germany changes to this but have a Military Parliament instead as a upper house. A demilitarized zone is set up between France and Germany. America aswell. This does not last long and France and Germany fight. The South and Britain does not want a war. France loses and Germany gains many French. Britain and The South decide to make friends with Germany and even blame World War One on France and say that they should of been on Germany side. Austria Hungary falls due to disagreement on a new governing style. Ottoman empire falls and many ethnic countries are created like Kurdistan. Japan fights China. Germany, Britain, the South, and Japan make a agreement not to fight. France does not and fights Japan losing the remaining empire in Asia. Spain and Italy are still fascist. This inspires France and many French racist party get into power but no party takes over the country. Mussolini still falls without a war. Spain are the same. Japan invades Russia due to China signing peace treaty with no more land to take.
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