British Civil War 1987

1982 Argentinian 2nd Naval Air Fighter/Attack Squadron using super entendards equipped with Exocet achieve the almost impossible and sink HMS; Hermes Invincible, Sheffield and Coventry in a single blow and massive British Loss of life.The Royal navy is forced to retreat

Trotskyite entryists take over a number of local parties sensing a Labour return to power and Moderates like Healy and Hattersley are removed and replaced with far left MPs.

Labour take power in a closely fought election in late 1983 with Foot appointing Benn, Heffer,Silken and other Tribune members. After reversing Thatcherite policies and increasing income tax Labour starts a program of abolishing private schools, nationalising industries and starts negotiations for the Transfer of Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland provoking an uprising by Loyalists. Poor economic policies lead to a downturn in the market whilst the 1985 Labour party conference passes motions demanding withdrawal from NATO, abolition of the Monarchy, the house of Lords and Nationalisation of banks. London Mayor Ken Livingstone forms an auxiliary civil defence unit heavily recruiting from trade unions such as NUPE, and from the Afro-Carribean population.

In response to a Queens speech in 1986 outlying the government's intentions a breakway group of the Labour party lead by Shirley Williams and Neil Kinnock and of about 50 MPs dramatically cross the floor and start an Independent social democratic party and call for a vote of no confidence in her majestoes government. 1000 labour members are raised to the Lords

On the day of the vote entry to parliament is blocked by Civil defence auxilliaries who only allow Labour members to vote. Police are ordered not to interfere by the Hom secretary John Silken. The vote is rejected unanimously.

A High court injunction is raced through ordering entry into parliament CDAs continue to block Opposition MPs from voting.

The Queen calls a privy council meeting. Labour members refuse to attend. Queen declares that parliament is dissolved at Privy councils insistence. Foot declares parliament is supreme and introduces a Bill to abolish the monarchy.

The Queen withdraws to Windsor. Labour insists it is still the government. the law Lords meeting in teh Great hall at Windsor declare the government illegitimate and call the armed forces to rally to the Queen
 
Where is the precedent for a London based paramilitary group being formed by the government and used to halt MPs from voting, legitimately how many trade unionists and black londoners would be willing in the space of year after recruitment to subvert the democratic process stretching back to the 17th century acting in ways reminiscent of a Latin American strong man. Where is the desire among the Labour Party in the 1980s to withdraw from nato, Northern Ireland and abolish the monarchy even if it means acting in a dictatorial way.
 
Where is the precedent for a London based paramilitary group being formed by the government and used to halt MPs from voting, legitimately how many trade unionists and black londoners would be willing in the space of year after recruitment to subvert the democratic process stretching back to the 17th century acting in ways reminiscent of a Latin American strong man. Where is the desire among the Labour Party in the 1980s to withdraw from nato, Northern Ireland and abolish the monarchy even if it means acting in a dictatorial way.

Hallucinogenic drugs in the water supply, clearly.
 
This would require Foot to be moved aside, along with Benn, and anyone else in the Labour party with Bourgeois democratic tendencies. Which would be most of the party, for starters - and that's probably an underestimate.
 
If the civil war you're talking about is a large-scale purge of Trotskyite entryists, then that would work because that is the only possible result of this scenario.
 
The OP is also forgetting the thousands of US service personnel in the UK at the time. The US won't stand by and allow a key NATO ally (one with nukes at that) to fall into the hands of far left loonies.

There's also the intrinsic right wing nature of Special Branch, MI5 and MI6 to deal with too. And do not forget the shadowy Operation Gladio types either. Any nation in Europe that looked to be going anywhere near as far left as the OPs was hit by wave of home grown terrorists.
 
The OP is also forgetting the thousands of US service personnel in the UK at the time. The US won't stand by and allow a key NATO ally (one with nukes at that) to fall into the hands of far left loonies.
If the USA tried that one they would be on the receiving end of the civil war from both sides.
 

cpip

Gone Fishin'
If the USA tried that one they would be on the receiving end of the civil war from both sides.

I find that exceptionally unlikely. Either side would likely court American assistance -- though, let's face it, the ones who AREN'T lunatics trying to destroy the country are likely to get the support.
 
I find that exceptionally unlikely. Either side would likely court American assistance.
Yes. That will go down well won't it? Turn foreign troops onto British rioters etc. That went down well in the USA in the late 18th century as I recall. It might be the only thing that will unite both sides in this civil war. Can I sign up for the opposition?
 
I like the concept. But there is probably room for improvement. I would not put too much stock in the whole Trotskyite entryist thing. In OTL, they only took over a handful of CLPs where membership had dropped significantly, and they only had two MPs, even with reselection. Militant was only about 3,000 people, they won't be forming a major faction within Labour anytime soon. They were more of a nuisance than an existential threat.

I'd also say some of the actions seem a little out of character for the people taking them. Kinnock was on the left of the party during Foot's leadership, and even if he moved to the right in government as much as he did as leader in OTL, he is one of those figures who are so attached to Labour they won't leave no matter what, he made a speech in a PLP meeting a few months ago addressing the current internal crisis in which he said something along those lines. Also, Foot would never preside over a government that attempted to create a one party state. He self identified as a libertarian socialist, and he spent the years around WW2 denouncing appeasement. He was just about the least likely dictator in parliament. I also believe he had quite a cordial relationship with the royal family.
 
The OP is also forgetting the thousands of US service personnel in the UK at the time. The US won't stand by and allow a key NATO ally (one with nukes at that) to fall into the hands of far left loonies.

There's also the intrinsic right wing nature of Special Branch, MI5 and MI6 to deal with too. And do not forget the shadowy Operation Gladio types either. Any nation in Europe that looked to be going anywhere near as far left as the OPs was hit by wave of home grown terrorists.
I would presume the UK had already withdrawn from NATO and kicked the US out?

This reads like the backstory to V for Vendetta, so presumably things escalate after Kennedy blunders into WWIII.
 
Argentina only had 5 air launched Exocets during the war. Based on their @ performance 2-3 would fail to hit anything. AFAIK Argentina also only had enough air refuelling assets to send two Super Etendards at a time.
 
The OP is also forgetting the thousands of US service personnel in the UK at the time. The US won't stand by and allow a key NATO ally (one with nukes at that) to fall into the hands of far left loonies.

There's also the intrinsic right wing nature of Special Branch, MI5 and MI6 to deal with too. And do not forget the shadowy Operation Gladio types either. Any nation in Europe that looked to be going anywhere near as far left as the OPs was hit by wave of home grown terrorists.

Britain wouldn't have had nukes by that point. Even the OTL 1983 Labour Party was in favour of unilateral nuclear disarmament.

Like others, I'm not convinced by the detail but I do think the concept's worth running with. You'd need Foot to be removed and perhaps replaced by Benn. You'd also need to do away with the SDP split, which is perhaps the hardest aspect to achieve: the further left Labour goes, the more likely a split occurs and the more successful a split is likely to be. I don't see any way that a split doesn't happen so the challenge then becomes how to render it ineffective? Perhaps a series of (orchestrated?) scandals?

Above all, both sides need to be so much in fear of the other and of the other's intention that they are not willing to allow them their chance within the normal processes. The rhetoric and threats on both sides would be key here, either from those directly involved or those acting as surrogates, such as union leaders and newspapers. That's not too unrealistic: as it was, Scargill sought to use the NUM as a private army. There'd also have to be a continual background of violence, justifying ever-more repressive measures. Again, reaction and over-reaction might prompt it.

Overall, I don't think the timeline's ASB and it could be done with a few tweaks.
 
This is my main problem with this site many a brave soul has come forth with thought provoking ideas for an alternative history scenario only to have his ideas torn to pieces by self appointed "experts". It's called fiction for a reason guys who ever said it had to be realistic. It's merely a distraction from the humdrum of everyday life not a religious text to be strictly adhered too. Don't listen to the haters three penny I like your idea and I look forward to hearing more of them.
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
This is my main problem with this site many a brave soul has come forth with thought provoking ideas for an alternative history scenario only to have his ideas torn to pieces by self appointed "experts". It's called fiction for a reason guys who ever said it had to be realistic. It's merely a distraction from the humdrum of everyday life not a religious text to be strictly adhered too. Don't listen to the haters three penny I like your idea and I look forward to hearing more of them.

Why the BIG words and the lack of grammar so that your long sentences make sense for those of us reading it and trying to understand what is being said?
Ideas get ripped to shreds all of the time. Many writers think that it makes then better writers, not just me.
No one said above that it was a stupid, ill-thought out idea. Reasonable points were made to question the OP.
 
I used big words because I was high, also it was probably responsible for the lack of grammar haha. I just feel strongly that the vast majority of people on this alternative history fiction forum are far too quick to find problems with a story, rather than compliment anyone for their hard work, dedication and lets face it the fucking balls to put themselves and their ideas out there.
 
And why does fiction have to be based on what could feasibly happen, it's merely entertainment not and educational tool. Please let the creative forces on AltHistory run wild and free, not to be stifled, curtailed, belittled or otherwise shat on in anyway.
 
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