British Army adopts an Auto Pistol before 1939

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: After 1900' started by fastmongrel, Oct 4, 2019.

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An Automatic for the British

  1. Colt 1911 in .45ACP

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  2. Colt 1911 in .455 Webly Scott Auto

    6 vote(s)
    8.6%
  3. Modified Colt 1911 in 9mm Parabellum

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  4. Luger P08 in 9mm Parabellum

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  5. Browning 1903 in 9mm Browning Long

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  6. Browning High Power in 9mm Parabellum

    52 vote(s)
    74.3%
  7. Pistolet automatique modèle 1935 in 7.65 Longue

    1 vote(s)
    1.4%
  8. Star Model B in 9x19mm Parabellum

    2 vote(s)
    2.9%
  9. Radom Vis 35 in 9x19

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Blue cat Well-Known Member

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    Dec 24, 2010
    My understanding is that in the 1930's it was being marketed for law enforcement use.

    To recap my prior comments, with regards to this fictional time line, adopting the 1911 for military use in a caliber that was less powerful than .45 ACP or .38 super seems a bit strange to me.

    The more I reflect on this topic the Walther PP seems like a reasonable choice in the early 1930's.

    Later if / when SMG's are wanted perhaps another handgun would have been adopted in what ever caliber was being proposed for SMG's use.
     
  2. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2009
    Considering the British had decided that .455 was too much adopting the more powerful .45 ACP or an equivalent seems unlikely.
     
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  3. Catsmate Well-Known Member

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    Aug 10, 2008
    Yes, it was briefly popular in the USA as it could penetrate car bodies and contemporary body armour, as much with criminals as LEOs. It was never particularly common.

    The UK switched from the .455SAA (delivering 450J with a 17g bullet) to .38/200 (delivering 240J with a 12g bullet). They seem not to have been interested in a more powerful cartridge.

    It's German. That's quite probably enough for the UK to go elsewhere.

    Why bother? The logistic savings are tiny.
     
  4. Blue cat Well-Known Member

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    Dec 24, 2010
    In that case why bother looking at the 1911 ?
     
  5. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    Feb 2, 2013
    38 ACP was popular in the first half of the 20thC, and 38 Super is just a hotter load, equal to todays 9mm +P+
     
  6. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2009

    It's a battle proven design, so why not take a look.
     
  7. Blue cat Well-Known Member

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    Dec 24, 2010
    Presumably for the same reasons the UK subsequently issued and adopted a 9mm handgun historically..
     
  8. Blue cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    It was a battle proven design in U.S. service in .45 ACP and probably one of the best handguns in the world when it was introduced.

    In my opponion by the 1930's there were probably better designs avalaible, particularly if one wants to use a significantly less powerfull cartridge.
     
  9. Blue cat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    The Germans do seem to make good firearms on occasion. On paper the PP seems like a good choice and its post war useage would seem to indicate it would have been a good choice.

    So long as the UK doesn't end up having to pay the Germans royalties in war time I don't see why it couldn't have been adopted in the early 1930's.
     
  10. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2009
    Demands production rights in exchange for setting aside some war reparations?
     
  11. b0ned0me Well-Known Member

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    Jul 31, 2011
    Doh! Beretta M1934 and the FN 1910/1922 would be other contenders, both likely cheaper than the PP.
     
  12. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    Feb 2, 2013
    Or do what the French did with the MAB Model D, slight changes to the FN and call it a new gun
     
  13. Blue cat Well-Known Member

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    Dec 24, 2010
    I suppose the results of the selection process would depend on what factors the UK decided were important.
     
  14. Catsmate Well-Known Member

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    Aug 10, 2008
    The UK used 7.7mm and 7.92mm machine guns and at least three HMG cartridges.
     
  15. SealTheRealDeal Well-Known Member

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    Jan 17, 2017
    It must have been an absolute nightmare to be an armourer in the Royal Armoured Corps. M1919s in 30-06, Besas in 7.92, Bren guns in .303 (plenty of armoured cars had them). Some tank crews have Thompsons some have Stens...
     
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  16. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2009
    Don't forget the .38 revolvers.
     
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  17. Cryhavoc101 Well-Known Member

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    Jun 27, 2014
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    There was a lot of that about - the Polish did the same (mainly after FN buggered them about) - but the British did tend to play these things with a 'straight bat' as they had far more to lose if they set as a precedent that sort of thing so I cannot see them doing it.

    I appreciate that they may have done that sort of thing during the pressures of war but not pre war.
     
  18. edgeworthy Well-Known Member

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    Oct 1, 2013
    Okay, who else is now thinking ... "Hmm, .455 Webley Sub-Machine Gun!?"
     
  19. Peg Leg Pom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2009
    Not .455 Webley (the revolver round) but .455 Auto, and it would be damn near uncontrollable.
     
  20. marathag Well-Known Member with a target on his back

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    Feb 2, 2013
    It still had a MV of 700fps with a 224 gr bullet. That slower with a slightly lighter bullet than the 45 ACP. Not seeing a problem there