I'm pretty sure the horses are making horses, not the British...but...one never knows for sure...And the British are still making horses. They haven’t made a tank in over a decade.
I'm pretty sure the horses are making horses, not the British...but...one never knows for sure...And the British are still making horses. They haven’t made a tank in over a decade.
The Navy, inventors of the tank, decide that they were right in the first place and build their own sea mobile mechanised force based on the Royal Marines. It has its own infantry fighting vehicles, tracked artillery, armoured cars (invented them too) and landing craft from special ‘treaty compliant’ 10,000 ton transports and carrier aircraft for close support because RAF are in strategic bombing (invented that too!) lala land. The RM lands on undefended coast and quickly moves to cross roads and scouts for follow on forces securing a deep penetration before the enemy can react. Great for imperial policing and League of Nations ‘peace’n up there!’ Stuff. Then the Government see that this is so much better than having an Army and independent Air Force and just puts the Navy and Marines in charge of everything.Alright how about this due to the horrendous losses of infantry in the Great War...
Problem, the Royal Marines aren't big enough for long term engagements on land without support from the Army in WWII, Imperial Policing with the Royal Navy is the same as Policing with the Royal Air Force. Army and Air Forces are part of the tri shield that defends Britain.The Navy, inventors of the tank, decide that they were right in the first place and build their own sea mobile mechanised force based on the Royal Marines. It has its own infantry fighting vehicles, tracked artillery, armoured cars (invented them too) and landing craft from special ‘treaty compliant’ 10,000 ton transports and carrier aircraft for close support because RAF are in strategic bombing (invented that too!) lala land. The RM lands on undefended coast and quickly moves to cross roads and scouts for follow on forces securing a deep penetration before the enemy can react. Great for imperial policing and League of Nations ‘peace’n up there!’ Stuff. Then the Government see that this is so much better than having an Army and independent Air Force and just puts the Navy and Marines in charge of everything.
Blame the treasury, they didn't want to open the purse and turned a blind eye when the Army started to ask for money to modernized.All through the 20’s and 30’s the Army were told ‘you will not be sent to the continent to fight - plan accordingly.’ In March 1939! They were told ‘be prepared to go to the continent and fight’. This is a little too late but only changes in the early 20’s will produce a desired effect. German won against France from the changes made in the early 20’s.
The Navy, inventors of the tank, decide that they were right in the first place and build their own sea mobile mechanised force based on the Royal Marines. It has its own infantry fighting vehicles, tracked artillery, armoured cars (invented them too) and landing craft from special ‘treaty compliant’ 10,000 ton transports and carrier aircraft for close support because RAF are in strategic bombing (invented that too!) lala land. The RM lands on undefended coast and quickly moves to cross roads and scouts for follow on forces securing a deep penetration before the enemy can react. Great for imperial policing and League of Nations ‘peace’n up there!’ Stuff. Then the Government see that this is so much better than having an Army and independent Air Force and just puts the Navy and Marines in charge of everything.
Blame the treasury, they didn't want to open the purse and turned a blind eye when the Army started to ask for money to modernized.
It was a joke on how they said that they won't go to war on Continental Europe until they finally realized that they will have too. Besides, people tend to forgot that Armoured APCs are meant to ferry troops into their combat positions no into the heat of battle. The reason why Troop Transports are armored enough to survive a 30. Cal is because of the thinking that Armoured APCs aren't for head on assault, just to transport troops.No they did not. They really did open the money but the priorities were different, Chain Home, modernise the air force, escorts battleships, fleet carriers, increase production capacity across the board and motorise the entire army with plans for a 30 division expeditionary force in 41. The fact that the Third Reich chose to bankrupt itself and had to go to war early is kinda irrelevant.
That's 28 fully motorised ID with their own organic tank regiment and two Armoured divisions for exploitation.
They actually did learn the lessons of the EAF, the main one of which is that the speed of a motorized force is such that it can overwhelm a leg army of just about any size so the solution is to motorise everything so it can get into position as fast or faster than the attacker.
In that world the armoured APC is marginal use. Troops in vehicles of any kind will be able to dismount and ambush leg infantry advancing, troops in lightly armoured APC are vulnerable to defensive fire from the increasing numbers of AT weapons. This BTW is a direct experience of the EAF, if they attacked a defender that had got into position the carriers were slaughtered by AT weapons they could not see and the troops forced to debuss in a pre registered artillery killing zone. The exception is the ability to move firepower once in contact to reinforce either an attack or defence, which is why the carrier platoon was added.
That's also the German lesson from Barbarossa.
It was a joke on how they said that they won't go to war on Continental Europe until they finally realized that they will have too. Besides, people tend to forgot that Armoured APCs are meant to ferry troops into their combat positions no into the heat of battle. The reason why Troop Transports are armored enough to survive a 30. Cal is because of the thinking that Armoured APCs aren't for head on assault, just to transport troops.
Which is why modern doctrine emphasize on the fact that Tanks must always be ahead of the APCs to screen them and the troops.
Are you willing to sacrifice 5 tanks for 5 APC/IFV would be the question when it comes to the Kangaroos. Which is why the question of APCs went to the Wheeled idea.Except its not true. The official statement was made very late but the army was preparing conceptually and by that I mean the training regime, organisation and equipment for a 30 div expeditionary force from 1937 on.
There is a real breakdown between the RAF and Army in terms of coordination but that's more on the army side not the RAF.
And ofc the Kangaroos were developed intended and used for head on assault, the armour protection being protection against their own artillery fire.
Modern practice is misleading, extremely so. Today all armies can expect to be motorised with lots of AT/AA weapons and good communications in the 1930s almost all ( ie everyone except the Brits, some French and the panzerwaffe) is leg mobile with limited AT and AA weapons communicating by shouting and telephones.
Except its not true. The official statement was made very late but the army was preparing conceptually and by that I mean the training regime, organisation and equipment for a 30 div expeditionary force from 1937 on.
There is a real breakdown between the RAF and Army in terms of coordination but that's more on the army side not the RAF.
And ofc the Kangaroos were developed intended and used for head on assault, the armour protection being protection against their own artillery fire.
Modern practice is misleading, extremely so. Today all armies can expect to be motorised with lots of AT/AA weapons and good communications in the 1930s almost all ( ie everyone except the Brits, some French and the panzerwaffe) is leg mobile with limited AT and AA weapons communicating by shouting and telephones.
Don't forget, Chamberlain was in the midst of scraping every bit of cash available to expend the British Military, so Treasury had to find anything they can cut to fund the Military expansion, the idea of Wheeled APC was meant as a Peacetime Patrol for the Colonies, but with the threat of Germany Chamberlain was willing to withhold those vehicles to make sure that the BEF have enough combat vehicles.One of the issues with the BEF being built up to 32 Division strength too late was several fold
Firstly I don't think anyone really appreciated how the Germans were able to finance the rapid expansion of their military and supporting industry's using MEFO bills and other unsustainable methods of financing it until it was suddenly staring them in the face
Also the Loss of 30+ Divisions from any future Entente Equations when the Sudetenland and later all of Czechoslovakia was occupied knocking that potential ally out of contention, then there was Russia which had effectively allied itself with Germany and then there is Italy joining the German camp (during this time there was still a possibility, as it was appreciated at the time, that Italy would join a 2nd Entente)
The Pendulum had in a very few short years swung massively into Germanys favor.
Initially when Chamberlain was waving his bit of white paper claiming peace in our time, he was actually going 'FUCK FUCK FUCK' and went straight to the Cabinet and the first order of business was to double the size of the TA from 13 to 26 Divisions in order to provide the 32 Division (including the 6 Regular Divisions) with the introduction of conscription that initially they believed would be required for service in France etc by 1941. This was later revised up to a 55 division force for the BEF but for various reasons this was never arrived at.
So something other than hindsight would have to kick the British into creating a Continental force much before 1938/39
Don't forget, Chamberlain was in the midst of scraping every bit of cash available to expend the British Military, so Treasury had to find anything they can cut to fund the Military expansion, the idea of Wheeled APC was meant as a Peacetime Patrol for the Colonies, but with the threat of Germany Chamberlain was willing to withhold those vehicles to make sure that the BEF have enough combat vehicles.
By that, I mean what effect would Wheeled and Tracked APCs will have, remember the idea is that due to the fact they have to sacrifice tanks to make Kangaroos they went to the Wheeled APCs as a Stopgap only.
Now you are getting my point, the idea is the early BTR series which are basically trucks with armored bodies was preferred because it was cheap and readily available, was a stopgap for colonial policing.Yes in order to have them the requirement would have to predate (by some years!) the OTL decision to expand the military which OTL was on or about 30th Sept 1938
In that case the ability to provide enough AFVs and tracked transport will be available through the standing up and financing of the necessary factory's over a longer and more sustainable period of time
Take Castle Bromwich Assembly for example - had it been operating at its expected capacity 6 months earlier (60 aircraft a week) then nearly every RAF Fighter command Squadron would very likely have been equipped with it during the Battle Of Britain freeing up Hurricane for other fronts, allies and......the Navy.
So had the decision been made say in 36/37 to build dedicated AFV factories using the same Kahn methods (ie lots of single use dedicated machine tools) then the cost could be absorbed with far less panic than OTL and the required number of AFVs and for this POD APCs could be catered for.
Dagenham had capacity to use 1.5T or 3T Model AA chassis as a APC. It had more capacity than Orders, even during the War. Also had the Tractor Factory in Cork.Now you are getting my point, the idea is the early BTR series which are basically trucks with armored bodies was preferred because it was cheap and readily available, was a stopgap for colonial policing.
Now you are getting to it. Now during the inter-war years, the question of money for policing the colonies is to use cheap but reliable equipment e.i not the newest or brand new equipment, but in the APC case which one is the cheapest and cost effective for peacetime duties.Dagenham had capacity to use 1.5T or 3T Model AA chassis as a APC. It had more capacity than Orders, even during the War. Also had the Tractor Factory in Cork.
During the War, made 184,000 wheeled vehicles, and almost 14,000 Bren Carriers, and 137,000 Tractors. 262,197 V8 engines all produced. Were running around 80% of capacity overall between the two Factories
Ford of Canada made 395,000 vehicles with 15,000 workers, while UK Ford had 34,000 workers.