British/Anglo-Japanese: Dual Monarchy

How could we get a British of English Dual monarchy with Japan.​

How large could said Empire be. Also if you happen to have a map I would be grateful.​
 

Orry

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A few quick thoughts...


Given the reverance that the Japanese had/have for the emperor you would probably have to have one or the other conqured and subjugated. Either the Japanese replace the British Royal family with one of the families that the Emperor could marry into (or at least a junior member of the family) and then have a few 'convenient' deaths leading to an heir from that family being elevated to the position of emperor - or visa versa.

If the British conqured Japan it is possible that it would not be considered totally beyond the pale for a minor royal to marry a Japanese 'royal' (It was 'just about' acceptable for a Britian to marry a high caste Indian woman - and for a British Woman to marry a Royal) with the right combination of deaths it might then be possible to unite the two countries.

Or

Push it a few hundred years into the future and if the Japanese then see their Royals as we see ours today then it might be possible to have a marriage without a conquest that had the same effect.
 
You would need the Japanese Royalty to convert to Christianity also. The British Royalty becoming Shintoists wouldn't work.
 
Push it a few hundred years into the future and if the Japanese then see their Royals as we see ours today then it might be possible to have a marriage without a conquest that had the same effect.
This is off topic but that would be so cool. Anyway that doesn't belong in this thread.
I think that the best chance is to have it occur relatively late, perhaps the turn of the 19th-20th centuries. Given that Japan largely modelled its navy off of Britainand sought to emulate it, it's possible that a minor Imperial may marry a minor British royal and from there, well, you never know.
My best bet would be for things to roughly roll out the way they did IOTL, with the joint couple having children. Then have a different peace accord where Hirohito is forced to abdicatr and then have the British force the Royal/Imperial couple into power. I'd guess they'd have even less power under the Japanese constitution and women would have a larger role in Japanese dynastic politics, and given that that's been an issue lately it would be interesting to see what would change.

I doubt there'd be any territorial change or any sort of political union although they'd probably be closer allies and Japan would be less US dominated, maybe a briti parliamentary system etc. etc.
 
The East India Company becomes involved in the opening of Japan in the early 1800s and eventually becomes a power broker like it is in India. The British government eventually takes the East India Company over and both India and Japan are ruled by London appointed viceroys. Disraeli makes Victoria Empress of India and Empress of Japan.

Eventually a national legislature is formed in Tokyo and Japan achieves Dominion status at the early 1900s.
 
The East India Company becomes involved in the opening of Japan in the early 1800s and eventually becomes a power broker like it is in India. The British government eventually takes the East India Company over and both India and Japan are ruled by London appointed viceroys. Disraeli makes Victoria Empress of India and Empress of Japan.

Eventually a national legislature is formed in Tokyo and Japan achieves Dominion status at the early 1900s.

Not very likely. The only reason India, with vast manufacturing output and population, succumbed to little Britain was because of their own internal divisions-the Mughals fighting the Marathas fighting the Sultans of Mysore fighting the Dutch fighting the Nawab of Bengal etc. etc. it was a mess. Japan had a strong warrior caste and a centralised leadership. Sure, they weren't a match for European armies, but any invasion would be next to impossible with a hostile population and a strong warrior caste. Never midnthe fact that the Emperor is divine and that people are willing to die for him (as seen in WW2, little hda changed). So Britain 'conquering' Japan is unlikely-the costs would be enormous and the gains? 100 million angry peasants and some silver mines. Tat is, after all, why Japan conquered her own empire, because Japan itself has very few natural resources.0
 
Just a random thought off the top of my head that may bear no relevance to this discussion, but what about an earlier POD. For example what if the Mongols actually managed to take Japan over. Then when the Mongolian Empire crumbles a separate Khan is in charge of Japan. We could see some kind of a divided society between a Mongolian hierarchy with some Mongolian settlers, and a majority Japanese population. This could go on for a few centuries with Japan being enclosed due to their own internal strife, then the British help 'open' Japan up around the 1800's. The romantics of Britain make the Japanese out to be an oppressed people. Thus the British help kick the Mongolians out of Japan. Queen Victoria is then proclaimed Empress of Japan. Then Japan becomes a dominion etc.

Of course this scenario assumes that there are relatively minimal butterflies even with a Mongolian conquest over Japan, which is possible I guess. And of course there's no royal marriage between any Japanese royals and British royals, which may be more what the OP is looking for.

ASB? Unlikely? Or no relevance to the scenario?
 
...in terms of the establishment of a British-Japanese monarchy, I highly doubt any union COULD occur apart from TheNordicBrit's Mongol possibility could occur. The more likely option is either Dutch or Spanish domination. The Japan of the Nobunaga-Hideyoshi-Tokugawa period was a time when the western world was first in contact with Japan, particularly the Dutch and Spanish (who had a large presence in Java and the Philippines, respectively). Totoyomi Hideyoshi had initially wanted to establish Christianity as a State Religion--until he realized that the Spanish were creating base points in all catholic-based areas. One of the main reasons that Christianity initially was banned was that some of the early Catholics in Japan had in fact attempted to request three battleships from Spain. Sir Francis Xavier, the first missionary to Japan, had considered Japan a launching point for an invasion of China. If the letter had not been intercepted by Tokugawa (or if the remnants of the Hideyoshi family had defeated Tokugawa), it may not have been unreasonable that Spain may have come to rule Japan. After the death of Hideyoshi, the Hideyoshi family represented a symbol of anti-tokugawa sentiment (which included Ronin, Western Powers--and, particularly, the Christian-Japanese Population), and if the Hideyoshi family had triumphed, its scion could hardly have maintained control over a divided Japan, establishing a power vacuum that, through marriage or political activity, could eventually lead to a union between the Spanish Crown and the Japanese.

...just sounding off ideas here, I'm sure there are quite a few timelines with this info...
 
Not very likely. The only reason India, with vast manufacturing output and population, succumbed to little Britain was because of their own internal divisions-the Mughals fighting the Marathas fighting the Sultans of Mysore fighting the Dutch fighting the Nawab of Bengal etc. etc. it was a mess. Japan had a strong warrior caste and a centralised leadership. Sure, they weren't a match for European armies, but any invasion would be next to impossible with a hostile population and a strong warrior caste. Never midnthe fact that the Emperor is divine and that people are willing to die for him (as seen in WW2, little hda changed). So Britain 'conquering' Japan is unlikely-the costs would be enormous and the gains? 100 million angry peasants and some silver mines. Tat is, after all, why Japan conquered her own empire, because Japan itself has very few natural resources.0

It was a little bit of a long shot. However, I don't think it is entirely unworkable. I could see the British forcing their way into the market and then being followed by other European colonial/commercial powers, namely the Dutch. Each nation will ally itself with various clans and begin the usual fight for supramacy. The Home Islands could be divded by spheres of influence and then formal protectorates.
 
Hey--what if the Spanish manage to take over Japan and England (Armada or alt-Armada)? Is it possible that putting the two countries under the same roof could lay the grounds for an imperial union?
 
The Imperial "cult", if you will, was a political creation of the Meiji Era and while there were some trappings of divinity pre-Meiji, that is when it blossomed. Before that point, it was not too dissimilar to medieval peasant's loyalty to the king over nobles- the person further from ruling them was better by virtue of not directly ruling over them.

Japan has not been and only briefly was a kamikaze state in all of its history and one should not view Japan through the lens of suicidal pilots.

Assuming an East India Company opening of Japan, you could easily see foreign conquest of the Islands.
 
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