Britain wins hundred year war

[bekosh]

Would this be a good time to repost my flag for the United Kingdoms of France & England?

 

[joemac]

Are we too pessimistic, I wonder?

I mean, France isn't gonna submit to English rule easily; places like Aquitaine and Normandy will be easy to rule, but great magnates like the Valois in Burgundy, and even lesser ones, will rulel their territories like kings for years.

So you still have a throne that relies heavily on English support, and Parliament for funding.

so basically the north becomes more loyal than the south and if there is some sort of rebellion for whatever reason in France(or at least the area we call France the southern parts may try to leave, which would surely make the resulting confederation more english dominated and to the south a balkanised France

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Would this be a good time to repost my flag for the United Kingdoms of France & England?

Ack! colour on colour!!!

OTL flags (and other heraldry) have rules about e.g. contrast. No colour (red, blue, black, green, purple) on another colour, no metal (white/silver, yellow/gold) on a metal.

If you look at the Union Jack, for instance, the Red cross of St.George lies on a white cross (on the blue field).

 

[Thande]

Ack! colour on colour!!!

OTL flags (and other heraldry) have rules about e.g. contrast. No colour (red, blue, black, green, purple) on another colour, no metal (white/silver, yellow/gold) on a metal.

If you look at the Union Jack, for instance, the Red cross of St.George lies on a white cross (on the blue field).

That's not actually true.

The rules do exist, but primarily for heraldry rather than flags. And they're broken quite commonly. The Union Jack's design is based on the three flags it derives from, no other reason.

Examples: Paris, Haiti, Bulgaria, Russia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia......

 

[Thande]

Would this be a good time to repost my flag for the United Kingdoms of France & England?

You're combining two different things there. The cross of St George is the national flag of England but the fleur-de-lys is the royal flag of France.

The combined flag would just be this, as used in OTL by the English claimants:

The French equivalent of the St George's cross is a white cross on a blue field.

 

[Dutchie]

That's not actually true.

The rules do exist, but primarily for heraldry rather than flags. And they're broken quite commonly. The Union Jack's design is based on the three flags it derives from, no other reason.

Examples: Paris, Haiti, Bulgaria, Russia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia......

Even the US flag has red stripes next to blue field.

 

[Thande]

Even the US flag has red stripes next to blue field.

True, another example.

 

[Dutchie]

But, I agree, I think the proposed UK of F&E would look better with a white outline to the red cross.

 

[bekosh]

The French equivalent of the St George's cross is a white cross on a blue field.

So, would it be red over white?

 

[bekosh]

The French equivalent of the St George's cross is a white cross on a blue field.

Or white over red?

 

[bekosh]

But, I agree, I think the proposed UK of F&E would look better with a white outline to the red cross.

Like this?

 

[Jammy]

Like this?

I like that i have to say

 

[Dutchie]

yup, that looks good. I even like the little bevels in the corners of the cross...

 

[Max Sinister]

I wonder how England-France would develop. Would they turn into a wank, conquering Scotland, Ireland, Aragon and Burgundy next, and the kings elected as HREmperors? Or would the kings be unable to control the mighty nobles?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

That's not actually true.

The rules do exist, but primarily for heraldry rather than flags. And they're broken quite commonly. The Union Jack's design is based on the three flags it derives from, no other reason.

Examples: Paris, Haiti, Bulgaria, Russia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia......

Err... But flags are often a form of heraldry, and at worst closely connected. OK lets look at your list.

Paris is a field split in 2 - that's fine, both sides can be colour. Haiti, ditto. Bulgaria and Russia Slovenia and Slovakia are fields split in 3 - which is illegal in ENGLISH heraldry, but common elsewhere.

This still doesn't allow CHARGES ON the field to break the rule of tincture.

As for the US flag, the field is striped white and red, so it is 'neutral' so the canton (the blue bit in the corner) could legally be a colour (like blue) or a metal (like gold). The canton shouldn't be red or white, as that would be make distinguishing the edges difficult. But that's more a matter of recognizability, not a rule - see the flag of Greece.

Now, before anyone raises the case of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (a gold Jerusalem cross on a white background), that flag was specifically created to BREAK the rules - to be unique, as Jerusalem, the holy city was unique.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Like this?

OOOH! Pretty!


Oh, by the way, Thande's royal arms/royal banner works because the blue and red are field divisions. Note that the lions and fleurs-de-lys are metals.

 

[Thande]

Err... But flags are often a form of heraldry, and at worst closely connected. OK lets look at your list.

Paris is a field split in 2 - that's fine, both sides can be colour. Haiti, ditto. Bulgaria and Russia Slovenia and Slovakia are fields split in 3 - which is illegal in ENGLISH heraldry, but common elsewhere.

This still doesn't allow CHARGES ON the field to break the rule of tincture.

As for the US flag, the field is striped white and red, so it is 'neutral' so the canton (the blue bit in the corner) could legally be a colour (like blue) or a metal (like gold). The canton shouldn't be red or white, as that would be make distinguishing the edges difficult. But that's more a matter of recognizability, not a rule - see the flag of Greece.

Now, before anyone raises the case of the Kingdom of Jerusalem (a gold Jerusalem cross on a white background), that flag was specifically created to BREAK the rules - to be unique, as Jerusalem, the holy city was unique.

All right, but there are more real life examples that break the rules. The original royal coat of arms of Virginia is a good example, a red cross on a blue field much like the one posted above.

 

[bekosh]

yup, that looks good. I even like the little bevels in the corners of the cross...

OOOH! Pretty!

Oh, by the way, Thande's royal arms/royal banner works because the blue and red are field divisions. Note that the lions and fleurs-de-lys are metals.

Thank you! Adding the white really did improve it over what I started with.
Off to the Flag thread with it!

 

[joemac]

I wonder how England-France would develop. Would they turn into a wank, conquering Scotland, Ireland, Aragon and Burgundy next, and the kings elected as HREmperors? Or would the kings be unable to control the mighty nobles?

In England the nobles already had some sort of power- the very early stages of democracy but France was less unified. There would definitly be problems at least to start with with the general autonomy of the nobles. Certainly a sucessful war might make England-France more united. I cant see the remnant French/spainish states being captured due to the sheer size but Ireland certainly Scotland probably given that they would have more men. However a heavy millitary defeat would see England-France being very likely to split up which unless the king is stupid/incompotent would probably realise

 

[Max Sinister]

England-France would be the strongest state in Europe by far (although the riches of Burgundy, and whoever discovers America first would give them an advantage, especially as long as wars are fought with mercenaries). As long as no king is stupid enough to fight all other European countries together, they could pick up one opponent after another. Like Centrum in the Gurps AE books. (Although the national language would rather be French than English.)