Britain vs. Germany+France+Russia in 1900

I recently came across the fact that Wilhelm II wrote in his memoirs that in February 1900, Russia and France approached Germany to jointly attack Britain. Wilhelm refused and quickly telegraphed Queen Victoria to tell her how the French and Russians had been naughty.

First and foremost, OTL history questions:
Was this bulshit? If these events really happened as Wilhelm wrote why didn't British relations with France and Russia go downhill?

And of course, the obvious AH questions:
Did the French and Russians really mean to go to war with the UK? How would it play out?
 
He really wrote that? I wonder why he'd lie in his memoirs, of all places.

The Royal Navy, at the time, was bigger than the German and the French fleets. I'm not sure whether it was bigger than both combined though. I want to say it was, but I can't quite remember.

Most of such a war on land would take place in Africa and Asia.
Japan might get involved too.
 
He really wrote that?

I found it in... wikipedia! It's sourced though: p. 84 of his memoirs. I don't have access to that book but if someone was pricking around in wikipedia it also fooled some bloggers that reference that quotation.

Wilhelm II said:
In February, 1900,... I received news by telegraph...that Russia and France had proposed to Germany to make a joint attack on England, now that she was involved elsewhere, and to cripple her sea traffic. I objected and ordered that the proposal should be declined.
Since I assumed that Paris and St. Petersburg would present the matter at London in such a way as to make it appear that Berlin had made this proposal to both of them, I immediately telegraphed from Heligoland to Queen Victoria and to the Prince of Wales (Edward) the facts of the Russo-French proposal, and its refusal by me. The Queen answered expressing her hearty thanks, the Prince of Wales with an expression of astonishment.
 
Last edited:

Flubber

Banned
He really wrote that? I wonder why he'd lie in his memoirs, of all places.

Perhaps because he was a brain damaged man-child eager to prove his innocence in all things? I've read portions of his memoirs and let's just say that his version of various events bare no relation to reality.

Seriously, if you're amazed that people lie in their memoirs you need to read more memoirs.
 
He really wrote that? I wonder why he'd lie in his memoirs, of all places.

The Royal Navy, at the time, was bigger than the German and the French fleets. I'm not sure whether it was bigger than both combined though. I want to say it was, but I can't quite remember.

Most of such a war on land would take place in Africa and Asia.
Japan might get involved too.

Yep bigger than both combined. The Atlantic would go into British lockdown.
 
This happens in "The Coming Conquest of England" by August Niemann (off copyright so available on gutenberg.org). The Russians invade India, causing successful uprisings, while a combined French and German Navy land in Leith and march south to London. Britain surrenders quickly, although mainly because a woman stole some key plans to pass to her German lover (who is appalled at her lack of patriotism, spurns her, but takes the plans anyway, while she goes off and dies at sea). If you're getting the impression that this is a badly-written, illogical, trashy example of invasion-scare literature, you'd be absolutely right. Don't read it.
 
Germany and France would have been blocked within Europe and become isolated from their colonies. Britain could send as many troops and munitions as it liked, subject only to shipping constraints, to Africa (except for North Africa) to crush the isolated French and German garrisons (once it's defeated the Boers, of course). Ditto for French and German colonies in the Indian and Pacific oceans, and for French colonies in the Caribbean. Canada and Australia would rally to the Crown and Canada would take St. Pierre and Miquelon while Australia and New Zealand (with the help of a few RN cruisers) could begin picking off the many German and French islands in the Pacific. French Indo-China, however, would probably be a bridge too far.

Longtime British ally Portugal might play a supportive role in Africa in return for the Kionga Triangle and a slice of German East Africa (the future Tanzania).

As to Russia, the RN would send the Czar's decrepit navy to DJL (in the unlikely circumstance that the Ottomons ever let a Russian fleet pass through the Bosporus to attack Turkey's then ally Britain).

The anti-British alliance would have no means to invade Britain, although Britain, in turn, would be unable to invade the Continent. All the British have to do is maintain a blockade of the continent and pick off the colonies of its enemies one by one. Assuming Italy stays neutral, there would be no land fighting between the British in Egypt and the French in Algeria, although there would be sea battles. Actually the British could probably get the Italians on their side by offering them Tunisia and French Somaliland, and maybe even a slice of French or German territory on the West African coast. Or give them a couple of German islands in the Pacific, so they can claim to be a Pacific power.

Once the RN defeats the French Mediterranean fleet and crushes an attempt by the German fleet to break out of the Baltic, it will all be over. A blockaded and economically devastated France and Germany sue for peace. Russia--bogged down in Afghanistan and faced by a British Indian Army that is far closer to its supply bases than the Russians could possibly be--has no choice but to follow suit.
 
Last edited:
You'd have to take into account factors like internal control over the empire, domestic politics and morale too. Fighting three large powers requires a very different sort of propaganda battle to fighting (what can be constructed as) one encircled, easily demonised enemy. Apart from anything else, that's a lot of foreign nationals on British soil to be locked up just in case.
 
I would assume that spurring the populace to fight would be easy in such circumstances. Europe just attacked you out of the blue (because the scenario is almost certainly not true) and it's a fight for national survival.

Throw in that Britain would likely be winning the colonial war and Britain seems fairly well off on the morale front.
 
I would assume that spurring the populace to fight would be easy in such circumstances. Europe just attacked you out of the blue (because the scenario is almost certainly not true) and it's a fight for national survival.

Throw in that Britain would likely be winning the colonial war and Britain seems fairly well off on the morale front.

We're talking the population of the whole empire, not just the British Isles. That means dealing with potential unrest in Ireland and India, as well as economic hardship at home. Ordinary citizens, but especially the upper classes, will have French, German and Russian friends or family, not to mention business links. You've got to keep neutrals and potential allies on your side too, which is more difficult if their choice is between one power or three. What's the USA going to do, for a start? And if Queen Victoria dies in the middle, that's going to send one heck of a discouraging sign to an already jittery public.

The Brits probably would still prevail, but it may not be that obvious on the ground.
 
With the issues about Alsace-Lorraine, you're not going to see a Franco-german alliance any time soon, unless the UK really, really, REALLY mess up in foreign affairs. And why the colonial war would be so easy for the British ? After all German East Africa only fell two weeks after the end of WWI OTL, and now the ennemy territory is much bigger.
 
A rapidly escalating Boer War situation might do it, if Germany and France decided to take overseas gains rather than settle an ongoing continental dispute. Even on Salisbury's watch our foreign policy wasn't flawless.
 
I found it in... wikipedia! It's sourced though: p. 84 of his memoirs. I don't have access to that book but if someone was pricking around in wikipedia it also fooled some bloggers that reference that quotation.

The memoirs are available for free on archive.org. He goes on to say that Queen Victoria told him in secret (!) that it had indeed been reported to her that the alliance was proposed by Germany, and that she thanked him for clearing the matter up. (p.87) It reads as though he's still trying very hard to exonerate himself.
 
With the issues about Alsace-Lorraine, you're not going to see a Franco-german alliance any time soon, unless the UK really, really, REALLY mess up in foreign affairs. And why the colonial war would be so easy for the British ? After all German East Africa only fell two weeks after the end of WWI OTL, and now the ennemy territory is much bigger.

German East Africa had fallen by autumn 1917, and only held out that long because von Lettow-Vorbeck was a genius at irregular warfare. VLW didn't surrender until two weeks after the end of the war, but by that point he had long since been little more than the leader of a guerilla band living off the land and holding no territory. In 1900 not only is VLW not on the scene but German East Africa is a powder keg on the verge of revolt (it actually did revolt in protest at German brutality in 1905, and reforms introduced in response to that were a large part of the reason why VLW was able to hold out as long as he did).

Incidentally, there's another wildcard that needs to be considered - Japan. Britain and Japan had been moving closer together since the mid-1990's out of a mutual fear of Russian expansionism and would sign a formal alliance in 1902. I suspect in a scenario like this Britain will be very keen indeed on encouraging the Japanese to join in.
 
The memoirs are available for free on archive.org. He goes on to say that Queen Victoria told him in secret (!) that it had indeed been reported to her that the alliance was proposed by Germany, and that she thanked him for clearing the matter up. (p.87) It reads as though he's still trying very hard to exonerate himself.
To think that this guy was the head of a great power in Modern times... He's like a poster boy for Republicanism! :p
 
Top