Britain vs. Authoritarian US and USSR

xsampa

Banned
The POD is that the US somehow becomes authoritarian-isolationist in the 30s and gives up the Philippines. During the war, due to antiBritish sentiment, *US overruns Canada. WW2 still happens, but UK in a weaker position, Soviets push further, possibly to Pyreenes. In the postwar world, the UK faces two hostile threats. How would Britain itself develop in response to the 2 dangers, and what would it do to its Empire?
 
Jets, radar and nuclear weapons. Nukes are nearly impossible for USSR and US to do on OTL timescale without Tube Alloys. Without British cavity magnetrons, your radar is screwed. Russia may well develop jets off German technology if they capture complete examples.

Basically, if Canada falls, the USN will be scoured from the seas. Radar cruisers, fast battleships, battlecruisers, a carrier fleet strategy, better AA than the useless 1.1", proximity fuses, alumimium explosives, torpedoes that work... it doesn't look good for the US.
 
I’m pretty certain that Britian would lose. Are the US and USSR allies, cause in that case the Home Islands are probably going to be overrun and a British Government in Exile might be set up in Australia. If the US and USSR are rivals, and if the British, for some reason, just totally stayed out of WWII.... maybe after this US invaded Canada, the British Empire restructured itself somehow (more likely it was collapse, but we’ll assume it didn’t). With the entire Empire having a say in the matter, this ‘new’ ‘British’ Empire stays out of WWII (still not sure how the Soviets can beat Germany single handily but whatever). Anyway, the Soviets are overextended and war weary, the Americans had to fight Japan (and because they are seemingly evil ITTL) they annexed the former Japenese Empire, so they are similarly war weary. We’ll go ahead and say that all the German scientists fled to England, so the British have developed nuclear weapons, and the US had to invade the Japanese Home Islands. Assuming all that this alt ‘Britian’ can leverage its nuclear capabilities (short-term advantage, the others will develop them soon) with his democracy and free market which will allow it to perform better economically and scientifically (long-term advantage). However both rivals have far higher populations which will put Britian at an enormous disadvantage.
 
Are the US and USSR allies, cause in that case the Home Islands are probably going to be overrun and a British Government in Exile might be set up in Australia

Please note this says America is authoritarian-isolationist. Isolationist.

However, ignoring that, the same problems as Sealöwe crop up. How do you obviate the immense force of the RN. Note that the RN maintained 3-4 large battlecruisers, and 7 battleships able to outrun the Standard class. The USN had an impressive number of extremely bad four-stacker destroyers, but thought cruisers were optional.

The RN had a substantial force of ocean-going destroyers, a coherent naval strategy, and an immense cruiser force. Not to mention more carriers, working light AA, DP guns, torpedoes that worked, fuel and munitions bases around the world, allies around the world, and well-trained veterans.

(Note that Rodham's BatDiv 6th Battle Squadron was poorly regarded after battle practice with the Grand Fleet).
 
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The POD is that the US somehow becomes authoritarian-isolationist in the 30s and gives up the Philippines. During the war, due to antiBritish sentiment, *US overruns Canada. WW2 still happens, but UK in a weaker position, Soviets push further, possibly to Pyreenes. In the postwar world, the UK faces two hostile threats. How would Britain itself develop in response to the 2 dangers, and what would it do to its Empire?


It is a little unclear here what you mean. Was Britain involved in World War 2?

Looking at an involved scenario we have several options each of which might be characterised as nice and nasty.

Nasty 1: Britain is allied to the USSR, British ships carry raw materials from the Soviet empire to the British Commonwealth and send manufactured goods back. The Soviets regard British as useful clients and communist parties across the globe are instructed to support the British when they do unspeakable things to hold the recalcitrant bits of their empire together.

Nice sort of: Britain opposes the USSR, armed and guarded by the British fleet South America and Asia enjoy only limited craptocracy. The main impediments to democracy are Soviet shenigans and erm...well the British trying to hold down bits of their empire both formal and informal. Conformist bits of the British 'Free' World enjoy democracy of a sort but mileage can vary.

Nice but a bit of a stretch: The British go ultra liberal. Democracies are established throughout the world not covered by the Soviet Bloc, regardless of the skin pigmentation of the natives (told you it was a stretch) of course the British being British even here respect the rights of local kleptocracies but at least in the Commonwealth they help foster real dominion type government and restrict themselves to assisting in maintaining institutions. The fly in the ointment is some communist and some local flavour nastiness that may require the British to send troops to aid the local civil power. The British learn to be no more condescending to people of colour than they are to all foreigners but by God are they smug about it. The British are not rich, a point the Americans like to mock when they can be bothered to look up and out of their own navels but that is not often. Still smugness goes a long way even when you really do need to patch the elbows on your jacket.
 
Britain cozies up to the US, apologises for whatever led to the Americans needing to intervene in Canada and becomes a proxy for American shenanigans in Africa and Europe.

Alternatively, Soviet backed left wing parties take control, peacefully or otherwise, and align the country with the Soviet bloc; although I'd expect some form of establishment coup backed by the Americans if this happened.
 
I’m pretty certain that Britian would lose. Are the US and USSR allies, cause in that case the Home Islands are probably going to be overrun and a British Government in Exile might be set up in Australia. If the US and USSR are rivals, and if the British, for some reason, just totally stayed out of WWII.... maybe after this US invaded Canada, the British Empire restructured itself somehow (more likely it was collapse, but we’ll assume it didn’t). With the entire Empire having a say in the matter, this ‘new’ ‘British’ Empire stays out of WWII (still not sure how the Soviets can beat Germany single handily but whatever). Anyway, the Soviets are overextended and war weary, the Americans had to fight Japan (and because they are seemingly evil ITTL) they annexed the former Japenese Empire, so they are similarly war weary. We’ll go ahead and say that all the German scientists fled to England, so the British have developed nuclear weapons, and the US had to invade the Japanese Home Islands. Assuming all that this alt ‘Britian’ can leverage its nuclear capabilities (short-term advantage, the others will develop them soon) with his democracy and free market which will allow it to perform better economically and scientifically (long-term advantage). However both rivals have far higher populations which will put Britian at an enormous disadvantage.
pretty sure a US invasion of Britain itself is about as feasible as sealion, unless the Soviets and the US are jointly doing this from France. Cant see Stalin letting US troops into Europe, assuming he somehow beat Germany without any help.. secondly The empire does not have a far lower population than the US or the Soviets, the knack for the British is using that effectively. thirdly if the USSR and US are allies and anti British one can assume Japan has probably sided with the UK, which helps somewhat..
 
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In this world Britain will align with the other European nations and do what it always does - form a powerful coalition verses a common foe

In this this case the Entente will likely be British Empire, French Empire, Italian Empire, Germany and the Japanese Empire and any other nations that feel threatened by this TL USA/USSR
 
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