Britain - The Imperial Defence

[amirtaheri]

1941​

Lt Col Orde Wingate, after a successful campaign in Ethiopia, in July 1941, was transferred to Malaya under the command of Lt General Arthur Perceval. General Perceval was charged with the defence of British interests in the Far East, including Singapore, the “Gibraltar” of the Far East. Wingate is promoted to Colonel and made a member of Perceval’s Staff to assist in the preparation of the British Far East against the impending Japanese attack.

When Wingate reported to Perceval upon his arrival, the two managed to strike an unlikely friendship and the two discussed the defence of the Far East. Perceval, intrigued and won over by Wingate’s ideas, appointed him to prepare troops in jungle warfare as well as setting up outer defences to repulse the Japanese invasion. Wingate set about the task with the knowledge that there was very little time before the Japanese began their offensive. He quickly set about a training camp outside Kuala Lumpur, where he began the process of training Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs) in the jungle warfare.

Within four months, a substantial portion of the NCOs of the Australian 8th Division and British 18th Division were passing on their knowledge to the members of their units. Wingate continued his training with units from the Indian Army Corps stationed in Malaya. Wingate, believing that units should use local terrain to their advantage instructed NCOs on how to use local terrain and camouflage to their advantage in small guerilla actions. A network of forward operating bases created a loose network from which forward units could stage attacks against the Japanese, thus negating the need for expensive, permanent land defences that Perceval could not afford.

Perceval, meanwhile, continued to prepare British forces for impending invasion. British intelligence were aware of a number of rumours on the impending Japanese offensive although it could never say with any certainty. Perceval wanting to be cautious made preparations for a full scale Japanese invasion. Perceval was primarily concerned with supremacy of the air, having seen how air superiority during the Battle of Britain prevented German invasion of the British Isles. He communicated directly with Churchill and General Wavell on the importance to British Imperial interests that Malaya be held and in order to do so, air superiority was of the utmost importance. Perceval commented to Churchill of the dire state of the Far East Air Command, of outdated aircraft and that the Japanese outnumbered their air forces by a fact of four-to-one. Perceval told Churchill that unless more forces were spare, Singapore would fall in a matter of weeks.

Churchill and Wavell, both concerned at the potential loss of Singapore in the East transferred some six squadrons of the latest Spitfire Mk. VBs and two squadrons of Westland Whirlwinds to the Far East Air Command. The aircraft sent boosted Far Eastern Air Command from a force of 158 aircraft to a little over 300. Although Perceval continued to be outnumbered by the Japanese Air Forces, he now had a substantial number of the latest fighters, superior to the Japanese Mitsubishi Zero fighter.

December 8th 1941 saw the start of Japanese attack with landings in Kota Bharu and Thailand. Air Chief Marshal Brooke-Popham, Commander-in-Chief (CINC) of British Far East Command ordered that Operation Matador be put into immediate effect to counter the Japanese on the beaches.

The RAF engaged Japanese aerial forces for control of the skies, denying the Japanese valuable air superiority placing their amphibious forces at the mercy of coastal defenders from the III Corps of the Indian Army. Amphibious forces suffered heavy losses during their landings as Japanese fighters continued to battle with RAF fighters for control of the skies. Obsolete Brewster Buffalos found themselves outmatched and were quickly shot down by Japanese Zeros. British Spitfires fared significantly better, denying Japanese air superiority.

Force Z, comprising of the Battleship HMS Prince of Wales and Battlecruiser HMS Repulse and four destroyers intercepted the Japanese landings. Lack of Japanese air superiority allowed the Royal Navy to sink the IJN Aytosan Maru before withdrawing due to enemy attack. The Royal Navy lost 2 destroyers and HMS Repulse in the attack but managed to eliminate a portion of Japanese landing forces before reaching the beaches.

Although inflicting heavy losses on the Japanese during their landings, the III Corps were forced to withdraw, thus giving the Japanese a foothold in Malaya. As Japanese forces advanced, they faced stiff resistance from British Forces operating in the jungle. Japanese Forces were forced to battle small units that infiltrated their lines as well as regular British Forces in the jungle. Continued RAF operations denied the Japanese to use their aerial forces to fullest effect. Japanese forces were halted at Kuala Trengganu and Kuala Kampar. British success in fighting the Japanese encouraged Plaek Pibulsonggram, military dictator of Thailand to resist Japanese invasion. This contributed to Japans inability to obtain air superiority, denying them air bases to attack British troops in Malaya. Yamashita, facing Thai troops to the North and British troops to the south, despaired at his impending peril.

Japanese forces found success elsewhere, during their invasion of British Borneo. Japanese forces were able to sweep aside Allied forces, ill prepared to fight off the superior numbers, equipment and training of Japan. With the fall of Borneo looking certain, Japan would be able to secure a vital area rich in natural resources and oil. Brooke-Popham, however, ordered the destruction of important infrastructure on the eve of Japanese attack in the Pacific that would delay the ability of the Japanese to utilise the vital resources of Borneo.

The Japanese struck Pearl Harbour on the 7th December 1941, achieving a major tactical victory against the United States although American Carriers were at sea at the time of the attack. The Philipines, Shanghai, Guam, Wake Island and Midway were attacked by Japanese forces, with Guam falling on the 10th December 1941. General MacArthur seeing little hope of victory began a withdrawal of US forces to Bataan where they maintained a defensive perimeter and holding off the advancing Japanese forces. On the same day, Wake Island fell to the Japanese, although US Marines inflicted heavy losses.

Hong Kong fell to the Japanese on Christmas Day, a setback for British Forces.

______________________________________

My first post and timeline. Let me know your thoughts, suggestions, ideas about where it can go next.

 

[tantalus1970a]

Wingate was a guerilla warfare specialist (and extremely unpopular among his fellow officers) and I'm not sure how much experience he had organising defences. Had he served in jungles before the war? I don't remember his sevice record.

The ATL you propose is pretty good, all things considered.

But the problem for the British in 1941 isn't military, it's psychological. We assumed we were inherently superior to non-white races and we didn't rate the Japanese military AT ALL.

If the Brits rate the Japs as a threat, what you propose is pretty much what they would have done, or at least tried to do, although you have to realise that at the time, officers weren't appointed on the basis of their ability to do the job, they were appointed because it was their turn!

NB If the Brits rate the Japs as a real threat, Force Z doesnt go anywhere near the Far East without a carrier (which you might want to factor into your scenario)

 

[amirtaheri]

Yes, the issue with Wingate was something I had to consider. Wingate OTL went through a long period of fighting the establishment after his service in Ethiopia. In this timeline, my proposal was that rather than have him pound on the door demanding to be let in, he was sent to the East where they thought he would not cause them too many problems and was less of a priority than the Mid East, N. Africa and Europe.

The other leap of faith involved in this timeline is simply that he got on well with General Perceval and it was on a par with his friendship with General Wavell. That was my somewhat warped rationale for Wingate getting the boost in this timeline! May have been a stretch, but I did not think outside the realm of possibility! He was a man of many theories, which is how he got the gig of training what would later be known as the Chindits, by intriguing General Wavell, a close friend of his.

It was because of that, I took the decision to have the same apply in this TL and have a bit of nepotism going around thus rather nicely, sidestepping the issue of seniority!

As for the issue of racial superiority etc being a factor in British military thinking. That could be true but I'll be honest in that I had not at all thought about it. I think what could be done is that the RN had a separate commander and didn't fall under the command of CINC Far East Command, ACM Brooke-Popham. He could well have seen the Japanese as racially inferior leading to Force Z being sent, so in that regard, it is plausible.

Thanks for your comments though! I will make sure the issue of race will be a factor later on in the timeline.

 

[tantalus1970a]

Yes, the Wingate thing is a bit of a stretch, but I can see it (if I sort of squint!). It kind of works. In fact, I really like it, thinking about it.

The assumption that the British, and the West in general, were superior was EXTREMELY widespread. All Empires are based on a concept of racial superiority (we have the right to rule). It was suggested after Pearl Harbour that the IJN had employed white mercernaries as pilots!

Once the Japanese turn out to be quite good at modern warfare, British morale COLLAPSES. Because everyone realised that we were screwed! Britain as a nation is always completely over-confident or utterly pessimistic!

if I were you I would ignore race entirely and just assume that the Brits regard the Japs as their equal militarily and get ready for them (that, by the way, would have little effect on Japanese planning because they also thought they were racially superior!). That's the only way your scenario works.

Thinking about Force Z, they did have a carrier assigned but it stayed in dock somewhere (South Africa?) with I think engine trouble or something. Can't remember the details.

 

[amirtaheri]

HMS Illustrious I believe ran aground while entering Kingston, Jamaica. Had to go to Norfolk, Virginia for repairs. The race issue is going to be a complicated issue to work around. May necessitate a future British defeat sometime, but perhaps not on the same scale as the loss of Singapore.

 

[amirtaheri]

Ignoring the race issue could work, but it would be a stretch too far...one might say! I think I might keep the race issue alive and set up a defeat for the future, have British morale dip as they re-assess and see the Japanese as equals. Could work...?

 

[tantalus1970a]

Ignoring the race issue could work, but it would be a stretch too far...one might say! I think I might keep the race issue alive and set up a defeat for the future, have British morale dip as they re-assess and see the Japanese as equals. Could work...?

The problem is, race is the whole reason the British make no attempt to organise an effective defence, even with the limited resources they have. They fundamentally underestimate the Japanese threat.

I think the thinking at the top level at the time was that a war with Japan would involve the Americans, making it a war the Japanese cannot win anyway. So they underestimated how much damage the Japanese could do in the meantime before they were finally defeated.

Also, a lot of people (including Churchill to an extent, although this is debated still) fell for the propaganda that Singapore was an impregnable fortress. I don't think they thought the Japanese would even try.

 

[amirtaheri]

You're right, so I've decided to ignore the whole racial superiority issue for the purposes of this TL. Unrealistic, maybe, but I guess I'll have to go with it!

 

[amirtaheri]

1942​

January – The start of the New Year does not go well for the US in the Philippines. Japan captures Manila and the main American Naval base for the Asiatic fleet at Cavite. American Naval Forces withdraw from Cavite to join the British Eastern Fleet in Singapore. Japanese forces engage American forces on Luzon at Bataan where American Forces hold a defensive perimeter against oncoming Japanese troops.

Elsewhere, Japan was not faring so well. With Japanese forces engaged and bogged down in Malaya, General Yamashita found his overextended supply lines near breaking point. On the 14th January 1942, he resolved to continue fighting regardless and cause as significant casualties for the British as he could and thus prevent a British offensive. Yamashita continued with the battle despite knowing his supplies would soon be exhausted. Japan, sensing possible defeat in Malaya delay plans to invade Burma and instead redeploy troops for an attack into northern and eastern Thailand, drawing Thai attention away from the pocket of land Yamashita found himself defending around Songkhla. Japanese objectives were to force the swift defeat of Thailand before turning their attentions on the British in Malaya over a broad front.

Japanese forces secure British Borneo after capturing Sandakan, the seat of government where they turn their attention to Dutch Borneo. Japan invades the Dutch East Indies and Borneo on 11th January 1942, beginning the campaign to capture the valuable oil and natural resources of the area. With Borneo secured, Japan has secured a vital resource area able to supply Japan’s war effort. Japan also takes New Britain and also invade Bougainville.

Allied Forces in South East Asia also unify into a single command, the American-British-Dutch-Australian Command (ABDACOM) to co-ordinate Allied forces more effectively. General Wavell was appointed Supreme Commander of Allied Forces. Seeing the size and superiority of the IJN, Wavell orders the concentration of all Allied warships to Singapore with the aim of a decisive naval confrontation with the Japanese.

February – American carriers, Yorktown and Enterprise hit Japanese bases on the Gilbert and Marshall Islands, providing a good morale boost for US troops fighting in the Philippines and public opinion in the US. The attack while of little strategic value further reinforced the idea that aircraft carriers would prove to be of significant strategic value in the Pacific Theatre. The news of success in the attack on the Gilbert and Marshal Islands was quickly reversed when news came the following day of the Japanese invasion of Java and the Dutch East Indies. Wavell seeing little hope of victory there orders Dutch forces to withdraw and to be evacuated to Malaya. Lt Gen Hein Ter Poorten, commander of Dutch Forces reluctantly agrees to order the evacuation of Dutch Forces, promising to return to liberate what is seen as a second homeland for the Dutch. Dutch troops numbering 25,000 Dutch/Indonesian troops and 7,000 British, Australian and American troops were stationed in Java. Withdrawal of troops to Malaya takes place immediately.

British forces began to push Japanese Forces back toward the Thailand, Malayan border by the 11th February 1942. Admiral Tom Phillips, having seen the power of aircraft in his action off Khota Bharu began to place greater emphasis on air power in the Eastern Fleet. Upon his return, he sent telegrams to the Prime Minister’s office requesting additional aircraft carriers for the fleet, fearing the Royal Navy would face serious opposition from the Japanese Navy and their superior numbers of aircraft carriers. Churchill dismissed his concerns as being pessimistic and utterly ludicrous. “Battleships, will be the deciding factor in the East, not aircraft carriers!” he was reportedly said to have told an Admiralty official. Churchill’s official response noted that the Eastern Fleet had a significant number of battleships and carriers to meet expectations. Churchill, believing Singapore to be secure, felt the Mediterranean fleet had to be kept strong to support the North African campaign, while British Forces held the line against the Japanese in the East.

On the 19th February 1942, Japan mounted an air raid on Darwin, Australia. The attack caused political controversy in Australia where the government were forced to criticise the British government for failing in their duties to defend her overseas interests. The political outcry at the attack lends political momentum to a number of Australian politicians to call for Australia to look to the Americans to defend the Australian continent. With the Japanese having bombed Darwin, many Australians felt it was going to be inevitable when the Japanese would begin to attack Australian territory on land.

The United States also orders MacArthur to leave the Philippines and head to Australia. The United States also attacks Wake Island with aircraft carrier USS Enterprise in the strategically insignificant mission, although it, like the attacks on the Marshall and Gilbert Islands, boosts morale and provides valuable experience in carrier warfare. The raid is seen as an American tactical victory, like the Marshall and Gilbert Islands.

Japanese troops also begin their attack on northern and eastern Thailand, forcing the Thai government to send more troops to the north to counter the Japanese offensive. A force of 5,000 Thai troops attempted to stop the Japanese advance very close to the capital, Bangkok. The battle ended with a decisive Japanese victory with Japanese making good use of air superiority while British forces were preoccupied with the battle against Yamashita at Songkhla. Thai forces are routed and make a hasty disorganised retreat back to the south of Thailand. Bangkok falls to the Japanese who hope to capture the Royal Family of Thailand (the King however, is at school in Switzerland during the war), to use as a tool to force the surrender of Thailand. It was only the actions of a small team of Royal Thai Police Officers that saw a large number of the Thai Royal Family escape the oncoming slaughter of the Japanese. The Japanese enter Bangkok and sack the city. Estimates range from between 5,000-15,000 Thai civilians killed by Japanese soldiers and thousands of women raped. The incident, called by many Thais, “The Rape of Bangkok”, similar to that of Nanking, inflamed Thais and many small guerrillas sprung up behind Japanese lines as a direct result.

The Thai Government under Pleak Pibulsonggram and the Regent, Pridi Phanomyong, escape to Singapore where they set up a government in exile. The majority of Thailand soon falls into Japanese hands and the Japanese force under Yamashita is relieved on the 28th February 1942.

March – Dutch and Allied troops land in Malaya after their withdrawal from the Dutch territory of Java (Allies were able to withdraw 18,000 Dutch/Indonesian and 6,000 Anglo/American/Dutch troops from Java). The Admiralty in London also formally amalgamated the East Indies Squadron, China Squadron and Australian Squadron into the British Eastern Fleet, under the command of Admiral Tom Phillips. The fleet had a total of:

Battleships – 6 (Prince of Wales, Ramillies, Resolution, Revenge, Royal Sovereign, Warspite)
Aircraft Carriers – 3 (Hermes, Indomitable, Formidable)
Heavy Cruisers – 4 (Cornwall, Dorsetshire, Frobisher, Exeter)
Light Cruisers – 12 (Caledon, Caradoc, Ceres, Colombo, Danae, Dauntless, Enterprise, Gambia, Glouchester, Leander, Maritius, Newcastle)
Destroyers – 26
Total – 49

Other Allied Navies had the following under ABDACOM:

Heavy Cruisers – 1 – USS Houston
Light Cruisers – 4 – USS Marblehead, HNLMS Java, HNLMS De Ruyter and HMAS Perth
Destroyers – 25 – 13 (US), 4 (Dutch), 8 (Australian)
Total – 30

Phillips, frustrated at the response from Downing Street took his case to the Governor-General of India, the Marquess of Linlithgow to expand industrial capabilities at the Naval Dockyards in Bombay to construct ships for the Royal Indian Navy (RIN) which would join the Eastern Fleet in operations against the Japanese. On 13th March 1942, Linlithgow under the recommendations of Phillips, ordered a number of merchant vessels to be converted into merchant aircraft carriers. HM Naval Dockyards Bombay began preparations to convert MV Rajiv and MV Bengali into HMIS Bengal and HMIS Peshawar, each capable of carrying 3 aircraft. Although of very little strategic value, it was believed the project would build the capabilities of Indian dockyards to construct larger, more complex machines with the aim of being capable of mass-producing escort carriers within 2 years.

Japan invades New Guinea after claiming Java from withdrawing Allied troops. The invasion triggers an urgent request from the Australian Prime Minister, Robert Menzies, pleads with Churchill to give more priority to the Pacific theatre and the growing risk to Australia and British interests in the Pacific. He asks for the Royal Naval presence to be increased significantly and for more British and Commonwealth troops to be stationed in and around Australia to prevent a Japanese invasion of the Australian mainland. With Australian troops already fighting in Malaya and New Guinea, he felt Britain was obligated to contribute to the defence of Australia. The pleas however fall on deaf ears. While Churchill would commit to the Pacific, it could not, as yet, spare further troops for the defence of Australia or New Guinea.

The response from Churchill drew immediate fire from Australian media, causing a public backlash, with many left feeling abandoned by their mother country. Menzies was forced to call an emergency war cabinet meeting to discuss what options were available and how best to defend the Australian mainland. General consensus was that Australia was on its own and that Britain was unable or unwilling to defend the Australian mainland. The conclusion was reached by 25th March 1942 that the only other available option was to seek American aid to defend Australia. Shortly after, Menzies invited America to station American troops in Australia as a base. Roosevelt and military leaders, keen to establish American dominance and assert American authority in the Pacific theatre agreed to send troops to Australia and preparations are made to send an American force as the beginnings of the force to take back the Pacific.

On the 11th March 1942, General MacArthur leaves the Philippines but not after swearing to his troops to return. General Wainwright takes over command of US forces in the Philippines and continues the defence of Bataan against Japanese forces. General MacArthur reaches Australia on the 17th March and on the 18th, he is appointed US Commander of American troops in the South West Pacific under ABDACOM. MacArthur however, feels that he should be made Supreme Allied Commander of for the Pacific theatre, in effect, taking command of ABDACOM from the British. The request is passed onto President Roosevelt who promises to take up the issue when he next speaks with Churchill.

 

[Hyperion]

I don't find the second bit plausible.

The British didn't have that many light cruisers or destroyers in their fleet to spare enough ships.

As for building that many new ships in India.

Never going to happen, at least in the time you think. Those ships require massive industrial bases to support. Drydocks, machine shops, thousands of skilled workers and engineers, none of which would be readily available.

At best you could build a few destroyers, and maybe a couple of light cruisers.

Maybe a merchant ship or two could be converted into a light carrier. But building six fleet carriers from the keel up in India is impossible at this particular time without changes years beforehand.

Realistically, you also give the US Navy a free hand here. You assume Coral Sea and Midway would not happen. This means the US can build up and strike at will.

 

[amirtaheri]

Let me redact that section and rework it.

 

[DuQuense]

British intelligence knew of Japanese intentions and he was well briefed on the impending offensive.

Not sure how your POD involving Wingate, makes MI-5 pay more attention to Rumors from Japan.
And given the Top Secret classification Japan had on the Planning, Rumors would be all MI 5 would have.

If you want a British victory in Malaysia, I would let all the Japanese Troops get ashore, but sink several of the Supply Ships.

 

[amirtaheri]

Have posted an updated/revised TL for Jan-Mar 1942. Thoughts, any suggestions for changes?

 

[Simon]

Not sure how your POD involving Wingate, makes MI-5 pay more attention to Rumors from Japan.

More likely the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6) as they operate in foreign countries, the Security Service (MI5) is pretty much a domestic service AFAIK.

 

[Hyperion]

Interesting, but could still use some improvements.

A significant number of those British light cruisers, and some destroyers, would simply not be available, due to the Meditteranean taking priority, though if push came to shove, I would say getting a couple extra destroyers would be more likely than getting massive numbers of cruisers.

The heavy cruisers, carriers, and battleship strengh seems plausible, especially if the British and other allies don't engage the Japanese at Java Sea, or other operations buttefly away some naval battles.

Keeping most of those ships based at Singapore, with Java and Sumatra in Japanese hands, is suicide times 10. The Japanese can hit Singapore at will with aircraft and sink the ships in harbor. No, any sane commander would pull his troops from Singapore, and send them to Colombo or Tricommalee.

Aside from that, the British really have either no way of getting that many ships together in one place, or no sane reason to bitch about having that many ships in one place. That would represent a fleet that only the Combined Fleet could destroy, and probably bring the Japanese heavies to kill them in short order.

So basically, you've improved, but there is still room for improvement.

Also, I noticed a mistake in your first part.

The British 18th infantry division would not be available until around December 1941, far to late to get training locally.

Only the 8th Australian and 11th Indian divisions where readily available to recieve any new jungle training of any kind.

 

[Hyperion]

One other thing that I was thinking of, and this might help your timeline somewhat, in a cosmetic way at least.

Your POD is that Wingate is sent to Singapore, where he can be out of the way so to speak, from events happening in N. Africa or Europe.

Might it not be too unlikely that shortly after arriving, he gets promoted again, to brigadier. Why, don't know. Some other officer at that rank got ran over by a bus or slipped in the shower or something. Maybe an officer was offered command of a brigade or division level position in North Africa, and transferred out from Singapore.

Having Wingate moved up another level might help somewhat in him pushing some of his planning or training through, assuming he still gets on well with Percival.

 

[amirtaheri]

A significant number of those British light cruisers, and some destroyers, would simply not be available, due to the Meditteranean taking priority, though if push came to shove, I would say getting a couple extra destroyers would be more likely than getting massive numbers of cruisers.

The heavy cruisers, carriers, and battleship strengh seems plausible, especially if the British and other allies don't engage the Japanese at Java Sea, or other operations buttefly away some naval battles.

I was aware that the Mediterranean would take priority, I think I had referenced it somewhere in the updates that Churchill would not commit further naval forces to the Pacific because of the Mediterranean. The numbers involved though, I picked up from Wikipedia listed under the "Eastern Fleet" I cross-checked their times in the fleet itself. So the number 12 is accurate according to Wikipedia, unless Wikipedia itself is incorrect, which isn't outside the realm of possibility!

Keeping most of those ships based at Singapore, with Java and Sumatra in Japanese hands, is suicide times 10. The Japanese can hit Singapore at will with aircraft and sink the ships in harbor. No, any sane commander would pull his troops from Singapore, and send them to Colombo or Tricommalee.

Aside from that, the British really have either no way of getting that many ships together in one place, or no sane reason to bitch about having that many ships in one place. That would represent a fleet that only the Combined Fleet could destroy, and probably bring the Japanese heavies to kill them in short order.

I would have thought that with Singapore being the Gibraltar of the east, it's air defences would be significant. Also, as referred to in the first post, the Japanese do not have air superiority in Malaya therefore any air strike on Singapore itself would be difficult and costly and wouldn't achieve a great deal.

Also, I noticed a mistake in your first part.

The British 18th infantry division would not be available until around December 1941, far to late to get training locally.

Only the 8th Australian and 11th Indian divisions where readily available to recieve any new jungle training of any kind.

I'll redact that part and change the TL accordingly.

One other thing that I was thinking of, and this might help your timeline somewhat, in a cosmetic way at least.

Your POD is that Wingate is sent to Singapore, where he can be out of the way so to speak, from events happening in N. Africa or Europe.

Might it not be too unlikely that shortly after arriving, he gets promoted again, to brigadier. Why, don't know. Some other officer at that rank got ran over by a bus or slipped in the shower or something. Maybe an officer was offered command of a brigade or division level position in North Africa, and transferred out from Singapore.

Having Wingate moved up another level might help somewhat in him pushing some of his planning or training through, assuming he still gets on well with Percival.

I think I had him promoted to Colonel (he was a Lt Col in East Africa) upon his transfer to Singapore and appointment to Percival's staff. I think having him promoted to Brigadier so soon after might be a stretch.

 

[Rubicon]

A significant number of those British light cruisers, and some destroyers, would simply not be available, due to the Meditteranean taking priority, though if push came to shove, I would say getting a couple extra destroyers would be more likely than getting massive numbers of cruisers.

IOTL the Royal Navy had stationed the light cruisers HMS Mauritius, Glasgow, Ceres, Capetown, Colombo, Danae, Dauntless, Durban, Emerald, Enterprise and Hawkins in the Indian Ocean or in the East Indies on the 8th December 1941. That is 11. Just count for yourself here http://niehorster.orbat.com/017_britain/41-12-08/navy/eastern_fleet.html

Destroyers on the other hand the Royal Navy was very short of.

 

[Paulo the Limey]

Interesting start, and nice to see a new poster come on board with some relatively fresh ideas. Couple things that I think would need changing:

The Spitfires are not going to happen in the timeframe you specify. The Mk V had only started production in summer 1941, and there is simply no way that Fighter Command, the RAF or Churchill will release any to the Far East when they are needed to face the Luftwaffe at home, over France, and Malta. More likely is getting several squadrons of Hurricanes, but even these are unlikely in the numbers you quote.

Also remember that when the RAF first fought against Japanese aircraft, they were shocked at the quality of them. I wouldn't count on achieving air superiority, although the skies will be more benign than they were in OTL.

Finally Force Z- I think Hyperion should be able to confirm this, but from memory by the time they set out from Singapore hadn't they already missed the invasion convoys?

 

[amirtaheri]

Interesting start, and nice to see a new poster come on board with some relatively fresh ideas.

Thanks. I would have thought somebody would have written something for a POD in Malaya!

The Spitfires are not going to happen in the timeframe you specify. The Mk V had only started production in summer 1941, and there is simply no way that Fighter Command, the RAF or Churchill will release any to the Far East when they are needed to face the Luftwaffe at home, over France, and Malta. More likely is getting several squadrons of Hurricanes, but even these are unlikely in the numbers you quote.

I was led to believe that the Mk V entered production in early 1941, replacing Mk I's and II's. The use of Mk V's are pretty fundamental in denying air superiority to the Japanese. I'm not sure how I can get around this as the fundamental premise of success in Malaya in this TL is that troops were better trained in Jungle Warfare and the Japanese were denied air superiority. If you have any suggestions how this can be achieved without using Mk V Spitfires, I'll change this bit without question.

Also remember that when the RAF first fought against Japanese aircraft, they were shocked at the quality of them. I wouldn't count on achieving air superiority, although the skies will be more benign than they were in OTL.

I think this was part of the racial superiority question discussed before. For this TL, I thought it would be easier if the whole racial superiority thing was ignored so that the British would take the Japanese threat a lot more seriously. The aim of the RAF in Malaya wouldn't, for the beginning, be to achieve air superiority, but to deny the Japanese air superiority, as I mentioned before. The Japanese had somewhere in the region of 500 aircraft OTL as opposed to the British 158. Given that radar simply isn't available yet in the Far East, I felt that the numbers had to be a lot closer in order to make scenario work. Unless of course, the far east is able to get some hands on radar and deploy them in and around Malaya, which I think unlikely!

Finally Force Z- I think Hyperion should be able to confirm this, but from memory by the time they set out from Singapore hadn't they already missed the invasion convoys?

I think this part might be redacted so that Force Z intercept supply ships rather than the landing ships.