Britain - The Albatross of Europe - An Idea, anyone?

Ok Tell me how much this idea is worth.
  • England wins the hundred years outright, the Dauphine surrenders, the South of France effenctively becomes an English Duchy, the North and the west coast are directly occupied by England.
  • England turns it's attention to to Scotland and Ireland, it's continental enemy ground to dust. Over a period of time, it gains control of all of the British Isles, (A war with Norway yields the north islands indefinately, as well as possibly Iceland - maybe, I'm not promising anything)
  • The nation of Great Britain is formed, building up a British nationalism which spouts British superiority over the French and stuff, with Burgundians, Bretons and Normans given priveleges.
  • War erupts with Burgundy over, something, Britain annexes it along with it's possessions in the Netherlands
  • Britain formally takes control of the duchy in the South of France. British control on the continent effectively consists of most of modern France and the Netherlands.
  • Britain, far from experiancing a golden age, is tied down by relentless rebellions within France and the Netherlands. It becomes almost Britain's Casus Belli to oppress the French and Dutch. Power becomes centralised in London leading to...
  • The King/Queen/Aristocratic Cock of Britain becomes an Emperor.
  • Britain is effectively stuck in a state of near total War within it's own borders on the continentfor hundreds of years.
  • Very Limited Colonial progress (We're talking on par with Denmark here) or none at all.
  • Britain becomes a highly militarised nation, centralised nation, patriotic nation, ideas of being English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish are thrown out in an all out war against very belligerant French and Dutch (and Flemish too, blah blah) rebels.
  • Britain doesn't Industrialise as fast, doesn't trade nearly as much etc, and becomes viewed as the titular Sick man of Europe, far too concerned with it's introverted problems to pursue Foreign Policy
  • Britain attempts assimilation policies etc, but French nationalism and cultural pride live on. Ironically, the rest of the world abandons any idea of a Nation of France, Britain does the same. The Wars goes on, British Statesman of all variety over the decades never even consider giving France independance.
  • Over the years British people settle in France due to government settlement policies, the French upper and Middle class become attached to the British institution, which intern supports them, causing state-sponsered class oppression.
Thoughts? Opinions? Is this idea worth a mess?
 
Ok Tell me how much this idea is worth.
  • England wins the hundred years outright, the Dauphine surrenders, the South of France effenctively becomes an English Duchy, the North and the west coast are directly occupied by England.
  • England turns it's attention to to Scotland and Ireland, it's continental enemy ground to dust. Over a period of time, it gains control of all of the British Isles, (A war with Norway yields the north islands indefinately, as well as possibly Iceland - maybe, I'm not promising anything)
  • The nation of Great Britain is formed, building up a British nationalism which spouts British superiority over the French and stuff, with Burgundians, Bretons and Normans given priveleges.
  • War erupts with Burgundy over, something, Britain annexes it along with it's possessions in the Netherlands
  • Britain formally takes control of the duchy in the South of France. British control on the continent effectively consists of most of modern France and the Netherlands.
  • Britain, far from experiancing a golden age, is tied down by relentless rebellions within France and the Netherlands. It becomes almost Britain's Casus Belli to oppress the French and Dutch. Power becomes centralised in London leading to...
  • The King/Queen/Aristocratic Cock of Britain becomes an Emperor.
  • Britain is effectively stuck in a state of near total War within it's own borders on the continentfor hundreds of years.
  • Very Limited Colonial progress (We're talking on par with Denmark here) or none at all.
  • Britain becomes a highly militarised nation, centralised nation, patriotic nation, ideas of being English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish are thrown out in an all out war against very belligerant French and Dutch (and Flemish too, blah blah) rebels.
  • Britain doesn't Industrialise as fast, doesn't trade nearly as much etc, and becomes viewed as the titular Sick man of Europe, far too concerned with it's introverted problems to pursue Foreign Policy
  • Britain attempts assimilation policies etc, but French nationalism and cultural pride live on. Ironically, the rest of the world abandons any idea of a Nation of France, Britain does the same. The Wars goes on, British Statesman of all variety over the decades never even consider giving France independance.
  • Over the years British people settle in France due to government settlement policies, the French upper and Middle class become attached to the British institution, which intern supports them, causing state-sponsered class oppression.
Thoughts? Opinions? Is this idea worth a mess?

Sounds exactly like my EU II game, conquered france but it was too expensive to occupy, inflation skyrocketed and i was constantly locked in wars, and no seas defences either. I think its a damn good idea
 
I don't think Britain has the manpower to come very close to what you suggest.

But won't it be fun to watch them try.
Go for it!
 
Indeed, the very point is that they are only just managing it, certain parts of France are ungovernable, etc. Normandy and Brittany will be like Unionist Ireland, they'd rather be in Britain than in a French nation, Bordeaux will be similar. The British administration in Paris would be weak, having to take all of their unders from an Ill-equipped London office, the British ill be enforcing compulsory National Service to maintain the forces needed to do this etc, and a significant portion of Government spending will be devoted to simply maintaining control of France, France doesn't come close to paying for itself.
 
France as a concept is nebulous - it is an amalgamation, and Britain can play on this to attach various regions to its cause, ironically best achieved by a loose autonomy.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I do not think that England would have the manpower, we could save the most interesting part that would be defeating France (Let’s keep apart the Scottish, Irish and Icelandic issues) and becoming a continental power in a hard situation in France. The consequences in neighboring countries would be interesting: Spain (Castille/Aragon) would not be threatened by France and they could concentrate in Northern Africa and Italy; we could see an stronger Italian personality, without France Spaniards and Germans would be merely invaders; we could see an stronger Savoy that could aspire to southern France…

What about the religious situation once the Reformation (if it is not butterflied) takes place?

Without France and England, would Spain dominate also all of North America? Could the Swedes dispute it? Scotland as a colonial power?

It could be an interesting TL, please go ahead!
 
Winning the 100 years war, would an English Kingdom stay English, or would the center of power migrate towards Paris?
 
I do not think that England would have the manpower, we could save the most interesting part that would be defeating France (Let’s keep apart the Scottish, Irish and Icelandic issues) and becoming a continental power in a hard situation in France. The consequences in neighboring countries would be interesting: Spain (Castille/Aragon) would not be threatened by France and they could concentrate in Northern Africa and Italy; we could see an stronger Italian personality, without France Spaniards and Germans would be merely invaders; we could see an stronger Savoy that could aspire to southern France…

What about the religious situation once the Reformation (if it is not butterflied) takes place?

Without France and England, would Spain dominate also all of North America? Could the Swedes dispute it? Scotland as a colonial power?

It could be an interesting TL, please go ahead!

Exactly, this is the sort of thing, not only do I like the idea of deadlocked France and Britain, with an insanely efficient bureaucracy essentially fighting something similar to the Irish war in of Independance for a highly protracted period of time, but also the world that will develop around it, British and French influence in the world will be miniscule in comparison to it's current state.


Winning the 100 years war, would an English Kingdom stay English, or would the center of power migrate towards Paris?

Hmm, I don't know. Paris would certainly be the centre of the British/English continental administration, but as I said, I can imagine the British looking down upon the conquered French, and sticking to London, not the hseer madness of Paris, I don't know though.
 
Just a couple of thoughts.

1. When exactly do the English win the 100 years war and how? The most likely scenario would probably involve Henry V living longer and maybe actually assuming the throne of France as was specified in the treaty after the Agincourt campaign. Henry V's extra longevity would imply that Henry VI would not assume kingship until he was older and maybe avoid the insanity that was the proximate cause of the Wars of the Roses. Any English victory in the hundred years war after Henry IV probably precludes a War of the Roses.

2. I think too much modern notions of nationality are in this discussion. Maybe at the very end, under Joan of Arc did the French start seeing themselves as French and not simply subjects of the French King (even then, they were more likely to see themselves as subjects of the local noble).

3. True victory in the Hundred Years War, probably would have established a dual monarchy under the English King, similar to what would come to pass under the Scottish/English dual monarchy that ruled Great Britain between James I until 1700. Assuming the unified monarchy survived, there would have been separate peerages in each Kingdom and different rules (parliment versus the Estates General, etc).

I can go on.. but that is just a basic sketch. Assuming skillful kingship, there is no reason such a system couldn't have lasted at least until the Reformation. Then things get interesting. This world's equivalent to Henry VIII would have to go one way or the other. If he stays Catholic, he might have a better shot at keeping the Irish and France. If he goes Protestant, well, his territory is much closer to Spain, and it seems likely to me that a major war could start at least over control of the French territories....

--
Bill
 
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