Britain sides with France in Franco-Prussian War

What if Britain would have taken France's side in the Franco-Prussian War with the mutual goal of containing Prussia's expanding influence and power in Europe?
 
Why would it side with France? France was seen as the aggressor in that war. I mean, who declares war over a diplomatic note unless it really wanted war?
 
Such a war didn't break the balance of power in Europe, while the goal of the Brits has always been to keep it so (as not to have someone so strong they might cross the Channel).

Plus, historically, ahum, Britain and France have never been, let's say, close friends, at least until the Fachoda Incident (I think that's fair to say? Correct me if I'm wrong about the date). So they would have no reason to help out of principle, especially since the Prussians housted a Napoleon of the throne.
 
Such a war didn't break the balance of power in Europe, while the goal of the Brits has always been to keep it so (as not to have someone so strong they might cross the Channel).

Plus, historically, ahum, Britain and France have never been, let's say, close friends, at least until the Fachoda Incident (I think that's fair to say? Correct me if I'm wrong about the date). So they would have no reason to help out of principle, especially since the Prussians housted a Napoleon of the throne.

The Fashoda Incident didn't happen for another 27 years after the Franco-Prussian war (1898), but as others have said, I really doubt Britain would be willing to through its hat into the ring on this conflict, especially siding with the aggressor. The Franco-British relationship that appeared at the beginning of the 20th century was based off of a mutual benefit that would allow both nations to grow thrive independently of one another without the threat of German aggression, but in the case of the Franco-Prussian war, the UK has no reason whatsoever (barring one of the sides doing something monumentally idiotic) to join in the conflict on either side (and if they were going to, I would them to join with Prussia/Germany long before they allied with France).
 
I believe I somewhere read that the British government was inclined to side with France (diplomatically not necessarily as a fighting ally), but the Queen favoured the Prussians - not surprising considering the family ties (her daugther was Crown-Princess in Prussia).


Britain might have a reason to join with France as a Prussian led united Germany mighht be considered too powerful.

So assume the Brits had a precognition what would happpen and try to kill teh Erman reich in the craddle by allying with the French.

But I doubt it would have any different outcome. THE german mobilisation was so fast and the victory over the French armies happened so fast, I dount british troops would show up in suffiient numbers IN TIME.

THE Royal navy would not changge the war at sea (here France alone dominated the Prussian/German navy).

What might happen is that Russia sides with Prussia to even the odds (not necessary) and get some spoils.

Worst case scenario might be the spreading of the war to Austria-Hungary (on the Anglio-French side) with Italy also joining the French (or maybe the Germans)

Russia could also opt for a quick stab at the Ottomans as France and Britain are distracted and Austria HUngary still recovering (and probably more interested to get some quick victory on the Balkans to restore reputation).
 

LordKalvert

Banned
Britain would only have sided with France if the terms Prussia imposed were seen as destroying the balance of power. In such a scenario, you would probably also see Austria and Russia expressing their displeasure and the Prussians would have backed down.

Since the terms never got anywhere near that harsh, no British intervention is likely.

On the off chance that Britain does see German unification as a threat to her interests and does intervene, Austria is likely to join and attack Prussia with the South German states rallying to her or until the Russians come in and smash the Austrians. God only knows what the Italians do
 
On the off chance that Britain does see German unification as a threat to her interests and does intervene, Austria is likely to join and attack Prussia with the South German states rallying to her or until the Russians come in and smash the Austrians. God only knows what the Italians do

The same South German states that are at that time allied with Prussia against France?
 

LordKalvert

Banned
The same South German states that are at that time allied with Prussia against France?

Yeah those are the ones. They are capable of switching sides at the drop of a bucket. Austria joining France might do the trick. After all, just four years earlier these States were allied with Austria against Prussia
 
Yeah those are the ones. They are capable of switching sides at the drop of a bucket. Austria joining France might do the trick. After all, just four years earlier these States were allied with Austria against Prussia

The "German question" was settled with the 1866 war. By 1870 a switch of sides by Bayern, Baden and Würtemberg (Saxony) is IMHO something that - while not impossible - only happening if Prussia is clearly losing.
 
The "German question" was settled with the 1866 war. By 1870 a switch of sides by Bayern, Baden and Würtemberg (Saxony) is IMHO something that - while not impossible - only happening if Prussia is clearly losing.

And even then would result in severe civil unrest - siding with aggressive France against German Prussia.
 
And even then would result in severe civil unrest - siding with aggressive France against German Prussia.

And for those stimulating unrest, it would have been seen as yet another French invasion, occupation and annexation of German lands since the end of the middle ages. Well in that period France did benefit from the fact that their most important continental neighbour the Holy Roman Empire became increasingly disunited. After all it is the age of nationalism and for those Alsace-Lorraine was just a fulfilment of an irredentist claim.
 
The "German question" was settled with the 1866 war. By 1870 a switch of sides by Bayern, Baden and Würtemberg (Saxony) is IMHO something that - while not impossible - only happening if Prussia is clearly losing.

Yes. There would be no switch of sides. But the german question was not settled in 1866-67. The war against France was the keystone of the unification between the North Germany Confederacy which was Prussia ruled, and the independant south german States.
 
And for those stimulating unrest, it would have been seen as yet another French invasion, occupation and annexation of German lands since the end of the middle ages. Well in that period France did benefit from the fact that their most important continental neighbour the Holy Roman Empire became increasingly disunited. After all it is the age of nationalism and for those Alsace-Lorraine was just a fulfilment of an irredentist claim.

I am not sure to understand what you mean by irredentist claim. But if you think that there was a significant claim for joining Germany in the alsacian and lorrain populations, you are wrong.

It is Germany and german States which wanted to have expand on what were ancient parts of the HRE. They already tried so in 1814/1815.
 
Yeah those are the ones. They are capable of switching sides at the drop of a bucket. Austria joining France might do the trick. After all, just four years earlier these States were allied with Austria against Prussia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War

we saw that one already,

Russia wasn't allied but was friends with the Hohenzollerns, France is in a tight spot for an ally.
maybe Italy, but they were with Prussia it'd take an earlier POD.
Britain, again France and Britain v Prussia would take a lot. And may end up like OTL without US or Russian help. Although, since you can't really beat Britain you may not get Hannover.

Unless Britain was willing to raise a huge army to help France beat on a country for, by the time, no reason.
 
Hanover was conquered by Prussia since 1866.
Interestingly, though, George V of Hanover had maintained a Hanoverian army in exile (the Guelph Legion, between 500 and 1,400 strong) until February 1870. He had 11,000 rifles stored in Paris ready to arm troops, and offered the French an alliance in July 1870:

For the conduct of the war His Majesty the King of Hanover would obligate himself to call the able-bodied male population of His kingdom to the colours and as soon as the right moment has arrived in the opinion of His Majesty the King, to make an appeal to the German people and to call upon all patriots capable of bearing arms, who want to work for the restoration of Germany and for its reorganization on a federal basis, to enrol themselves in the royal Hanoverian army and to fight for Germany against Prussia under the Hanoverian banner.

There was a Hanoverian separatist party between 1867 and 1933, which reliably pulled in 1.5% of the vote in national elections until the 1890s. It tailed off a bit from then, falling to 0.7% in 1907 and hovering around the 1% mark thereafter. However, winning 320,000 votes almost sixty years after the country ceased to exist isn't a terrible result.
 
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Hanover was conquered by Prussia since 1866.
you are right there, I take it back then.
A Franco-British alliance could do almost nothing to the Prussians.

Not by this point in time, and if Britain get's involved Russia is more than likely to begin a conflict in Persia or Afghanistan.
 
I am not sure to understand what you mean by irredentist claim. But if you think that there was a significant claim for joining Germany in the alsacian and lorrain populations, you are wrong.

It is Germany and german States which wanted to have expand on what were ancient parts of the HRE. They already tried so in 1814/1815.

Irredentist isn't necessarily an equal two way street. In this case you're right that the claim was mostly made by German nationalists.
OTOH the term irredentist comes from Italia Irredenta, which also had areas where local wishes, weren't always in line with the nation making the claims (especially in multiethnic and multilingual areas).

As such nationalist saw it as redeeming, however there were more reasons to take Alsace-Lorraine (back), like military and politically (there was a thread on this matter a while ago).
 
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