Britain, Indivisible

To this day, the United Kingdom is famously known for it's ethnic divisions, as the Irish, Scots, English, Welsh, and now the Cornish all harbor stereotyped hatred for each other, yet remain a united nation out of tradition and maintaining the status quo.

However, is there a way to make the English, Welsh, and Cornish consider themselves a single national entity? What POD is need after the personal union between England and Scottish crowns for this to occur?

Bonus points for integrating the Scots and Irish
 
German Invasion 1943 in WWII leads to long drawn out Guerilla warfare between NAZI and British .This effort unifies the people together and when US and Soviet troops finally liberate the former UK in 1947 .
Today the people have put their differences to rebuild their nation and a common idea of British nationalism has arisen from the division of the pre war nation .
 
If the Roman Empire never leaves this island, and finally conquers Caledonia and Hibernia, even the irish would become romans in the long run.
 

Don Quijote

Banned
German Invasion 1943 in WWII leads to long drawn out Guerilla warfare between NAZI and British .This effort unifies the people together and when US and Soviet troops finally liberate the former UK in 1947 .
Today the people have put their differences to rebuild their nation and a common idea of British nationalism has arisen from the division of the pre war nation .

We might just have friendly arguments about who the best resistance fighters were.

'Them auld Lowlanders did nothin' to throw oot the Germans! It was us Highlanders that did it.'

'I say old chap, that's a bit steep. What about the English? We put up a jolly good show.' :D
 
German Invasion 1943 in WWII leads to long drawn out Guerilla warfare between NAZI and British .This effort unifies the people together and when US and Soviet troops finally liberate the former UK in 1947 .
Today the people have put their differences to rebuild their nation and a common idea of British nationalism has arisen from the division of the pre war nation .

You might in that situation end up with a N/S Korea or E/W Germany situation after the liberation. Scotland and Ireland- Soviet sphere with England and Wales as "Western" sphere.
 
To this day, the United Kingdom is famously known for it's ethnic divisions, as the Irish, Scots, English, Welsh, and now the Cornish all harbor stereotyped hatred for each other, yet remain a united nation out of tradition and maintaining the status quo.

However, is there a way to make the English, Welsh, and Cornish consider themselves a single national entity? What POD is need after the personal union between England and Scottish crowns for this to occur?

Bonus points for integrating the Scots and Irish

Well, the Cornish thing only really started in the last few decades. Not sure if Wales could be sufficiently Anglicised with a post-1603 POD: lots of the country was/is quite isolated, and I'm not sure it could realistically be integrated into the English cultural bloc quicker than it was IOTL. The best POD (although quite a bit earlier than the Union of the Crowns) would probably be to have the Anglo-Saxons conquer Wales as well as western England during the 7th century.

Something similar might be doable with Scotland: Lothian was settled by Anglo-Saxons IOTL, so having a more extensive and settlement there might result in a *Scottish kingdom being unified by the Saxons rather than the Scots.

Ireland would probably be the most difficult, as being a separate island would tend to create a sense of apartness between the two lands. OTOH Ireland is quite Anglicised IOTL, so if you manage to get the English government to view Ireland as a valued part of the country instead of a barbarian-infested cash cow wholly subservient to English interests, who knows what might happen.
 
German Invasion 1943 in WWII leads to long drawn out Guerilla warfare between NAZI and British .This effort unifies the people together and when US and Soviet troops finally liberate the former UK in 1947 .
Today the people have put their differences to rebuild their nation and a common idea of British nationalism has arisen from the division of the pre war nation .

(OOC: Really dude? Otl up to ww2? why?)
 
(OOC: Really dude? Otl up to ww2? why?)

No where in the original post does he say "the earliest" therefore Count of Crisco's point is fine,and pretty well reasoned,


If including Ireland and the Scots I'd say the POD would have to come before the Civil wars and Cromwell's England. Or have the introduction of a common enemy at home such as the suggested German invasion(but even then you'd struggle crowbarring Ireland into that immediately)



However one of the more likely and early point of divergence,to my mind, is back with the Norman conquest of Britain,

The Normans did conquer most of Britain in the mid-late 11th century,and settled in the East of Ireland(the Pale). If they'd been less set in their own superiority and feudal system,once the peoples had intermarried and intermixed (to a greater extent than in OTL) I can see national divides being lessened,although the exception of Ireland due to it's separation from the British mainland may occur.

Just look how many noble houses and surnames have a root in Norman across the whole of Britain and Ireland throughout the rest of history,lots of the key players of each country can trace back to a Norman ancestor

(Note: I'm not great with this part of history,so I'm sure someone can do a much better explanation or expansion on this, or counter-point but other than roman-era I don't see a clear earlier point it could be.)

Thoughts people?

Nice thread topic Suvareshkin
 

Lateknight

Banned
If the British didn't lose their empire they wouldn't be dealing with ethic diversions on their islands. There's probably some way for the British not to lose everything.
 
In a relatively modern sense, I imagine it would help a great deal to breed a greater feeling of unity if England wasn't so often used as a synonym for the UK by bother the British establishment and foreign leaders.
Hard to think of yourself as an equal part of a whole, when one part is often treated as greater than the rest.
A softer attempt at blending the cultures would probably help too. Beating Irish/Welsh culture and language out of children is going to foster resentment.
Maybe co-opting it as part of a greater national myth, with more focus on the British (i.e Britons) aspect of English culture and history to create more links with the Celtic aspects of the other nationalities?
 
If the British didn't lose their empire they wouldn't be dealing with ethic diversions on their islands. There's probably some way for the British not to lose everything.

I'm not sure the empire would help with the Irish, imo after the BCW and Cromwell true Irish Unity with the rest is out for the next couple of centuries, and if we take the OP seriously on cornwall(....) how does empire help with a small regional idenity really?


In a relatively modern sense, I imagine it would help a great deal to breed a greater feeling of unity if England wasn't so often used as a synonym for the UK by bother the British establishment and foreign leaders.
Hard to think of yourself as an equal part of a whole, when one part is often treated as greater than the rest.
A softer attempt at blending the cultures would probably help too. Beating Irish/Welsh culture and language out of children is going to foster resentment.
Maybe co-opting it as part of a greater national myth, with more focus on the British (i.e Britons) aspect of English culture and history to create more links with the Celtic aspects of the other nationalities?

Agreed,the balance of power in the Isles is too firmly tipped in England favour,but again this comes down mostly to Saxon "conquest" whereas the others remained more tribal Celtic/Briton for longer. The unification of the Isles started in England each time it got close,(think Romans,original Saxon settlers, Alfred great,William conq. etc. ) all based their power in England and then attempted to subjugate the other nations(this is of course excluding King Arthur of the Britons,as that's kinda a grey area)
 
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