Britain/Germany/Ottomans/Austria vs France/Russia/USA

I think I may have proposed this a while back, but I forget. Apologies if it's been done before, anyway, and feel free to ignore if so.

How would one end up with alliance blocs looking like this in the first or second decade of the 20th century? And how does a major war go with these alliances? Is a stalemate likely, or can one side curbstomp the other?
 
The most important thing you would need for this scenario is a less isolationist USA that is hostile towards Britain. Everything else would just fall into place from there.
And the war would go down to who can control the Atlantic. If the USA can be prevented from reinforcing its European allies, they will eventually be defeated, else, they would win.
 
I think I may have proposed this a while back, but I forget. Apologies if it's been done before, anyway, and feel free to ignore if so.

How would one end up with alliance blocs looking like this in the first or second decade of the 20th century? And how does a major war go with these alliances? Is a stalemate likely, or can one side curbstomp the other?

Well, France looks like pretty much screwed and Russia in a potentially very uncomfortable situation. OTOH, there's little that Germany+Britain can do to to defeat the USA, or even to avoid losing Canada. The action of minor powers (especially Italy and Japan) can affect the balance.
On the naval part, I guess Royal Navy+Kriegsmarine outmatch US navy by far, but I don't in what measure they do.
However, the UK-Ger alliance can easily pull a domino situation, knocking France and maybe Russia out of the war before the US can effectively help them. I don't think the Us could chose to stand alone.
 
Well, France looks like pretty much screwed and Russia in a potentially very uncomfortable situation. OTOH, there's little that Germany+Britain can do to to defeat the USA, or even to avoid losing Canada. The action of minor powers (especially Italy and Japan) can affect the balance.
On the naval part, I guess Royal Navy+Kriegsmarine outmatch US navy by far, but I don't in what measure they do.
However, the UK-Ger alliance can easily pull a domino situation, knocking France and maybe Russia out of the war before the US can effectively help them. I don't think the Us could chose to stand alone.

The question is, would Germany even have a fleet if allied to the UK? I think not--not only would it discomfort the British to an extent that would thwart alliance, but once they're allies, Germany has little need to build a giant fleet, being allied to the worlds premier naval power and all.
 
America wins and rules teh world! :rolleyes:


SWeriously, thou. The French and Russians won´t start a war against Anglo-German-Austrian-Ottoman alliance, even when backed by the US, unless attacked first.

We can have IOTL WW1 avoided, in the following years the trade between German and British empires increases (they where biggest trade partners when WW1 started). The German Empire becomes increasingly scared of the Russian Empire, while the British Empire is increasingly scared of the US, where naval fleet built-up begin in 1916 and accelerated in 19191-1923 (WW1 not happening, the UK is less reluctant for a naval race, no 1923 naval treaty).

Eventually, the Kaiser offer Britain the Kriegsmarine to maintain British superiority at sea while the British Empire allying with Germany neutralises Russian and French ambitions, Italy sides with Germany and Britain, knowing they won´t gain anything from standing up against tehe Anglo-Germanic power.

The economies of the great powers are growing and coming increasingly into conflict, in the early 1930s economical warfare have turned into military warfare, the Anglo-German-Austrian-Ottoman alliance decides to strike France, then Russia so they can unifie europe against the american menace.
 
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The two key questions here are the US Navy and Russia's stability. If the US and the UK had been enemies for 20+ years then I can guarantee you that the US Navy would be bigger than OTL. If the combined US and French fleets can defeat the British and German fleets, then the US can reinforce their European allies. Russia's stability can be an issue, because if it collapses a few years into the war like it did in OTL WW1 then the US and France will have a lot of dificulties. This factor largely depends on the butterflies resulting from the POD.

Best case scenario for UK/Germany/Ottomans/Austria:
UK-German fleet obliterates the French and American ones. Commonwealth troops are landed to defend Canada. Russia collapses to revolutions. Russia gets a Brest-Litovsk style peace from Germany and Austria and most of central asia is released as independent nations which quickly fall under British influence. The Ottomans gain land in the Caucasus. France cedes land to Germany and is forced to disarm and pay reparations. France's colonial empire is also dismembered between the British and the Germans. The US negotiates a fairly lenient peace after British and German troops freed up from Europe launch a major offensive from Canada.

Best case scenario for France/Russia/USA:
US-French fleet defeats British-German fleet. France and a more stable Russia hold the lines in Europe. The US conquers all of Canada. US reinforcements help the French and Russians to break through the lines against Germany, et al. The Germans return Alsace-Lorraine to France. Germany disarms and pays reparations. The Russians take some land in eastern Europe. The Ottoman Empire collapses and is partitioned. Russia and France both take large chunks. The British make some minor territorial concessions but largely emerge unscathed. Britain also pays reparations, but far smaller ones than Germany.
 
I do not believe the United States could be physically defeated by the British and Germans at this point.

If the war goes long, the Americans/Russians win.

If the war goes short, the British/Germans do.

However the war goes, France looses - which bring up the question of why they fight it.

The length of the war is determined by the exact scenario - the goal for the British and Germans should be to get America out with as little pain as possible.

Mike Turcotte
 
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