Britain and the Empire in a Central Powers victorious World

What would happen to Britain and it's Empire in such a world? To British Politics and society? And what would happen in places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, etc. Also Ireland?

Naturally, I'd suppose Britain along with France would oppose German dominance in Europe in some way. The Royal Navy would be made a top priority, to maintain their naval superiority over Germany. Other than that, I'm not sure what else would happen.
 

HurganPL

Banned
Germany can achieve some sort of armistice with Britain, but is unable to achieve decisive victory.
Britain would maybe agree to some minor colonial concessions.
Or being Britain agree to oversee French colonies for 25 years for French government the day before France declares capitulation to Germany;).

As to longer perspective-seek alliance with USA against Germany, help re-arm France, fund and help in organisation of guerilla movements in Central Europe, support Russian nationalists against Germany.
Interesting idea-what if Britain supports Chinese reform movement to counter German and Japanese presence in Asia ?
 
Britain may have to make some minor concessions in Central Africa which would probably allow a Central Africa - Cameroon colony of some great size to come into being, one which may also annex parts of the Northern Congo from Belgium. Britain may also give Togoland some more land and make it more viable, or again perhaps that would come from the French

Britain would be in some trouble with the dominions, for quite a few reasons - one of which would be trying to convince Australia and New Zealand to hand back to Germany the colonies they took with blood, and another the same with South Africa and Sud-West Afrika

Quite cold in here this morning, my fingers freezing up

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I'm not sure how New Zealand would react to Samoa, I think that we would do what Britain says, but I see no reason why it would be returned (it was really done and dusted BEFORE the first troops stepped ashore!). There would be some pretty serious greivences amongst the populace of Oz and NZ too, having lost so many lives for what?
 
South Africa will be an interesting case, there was some opposition to the war (although it wasn't particularly widespread), and a Central Powers victory will probably give a boost to the Afrikaner Nationalists who opposed the war in the first place (mind you the National Party won an election in 1924, so I don't know if it would make too much of a difference). Depending on how weak the British Empire has begun, you may see South Africa aligning with Germany (who many Afrikaners saw as their ethnic brethren), rather than remaining within the Empire. South West Africa may be handed back to the Germans.
 
What would happen to Britain and it's Empire in such a world? To British Politics and society? And what would happen in places like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa, etc. Also Ireland?

Naturally, I'd suppose Britain along with France would oppose German dominance in Europe in some way. The Royal Navy would be made a top priority, to maintain their naval superiority over Germany. Other than that, I'm not sure what else would happen.
Depends on what kind of central powers victory we are talking. I mean the scenario could be anything from the british staying out in 1914 to a remarkable German sucess in late '17 or early '18.
 
The RN will have all hands full to prevent Germany from taking over British colonies. I wonder whether there'll be an equivalent of Free France. If the Germans fail to defeat the Empire at the seas, they'll cooperate with the Ottomans to advance towards east (through Persia) and south (through Egypt).
 
Depends on what kind of central powers victory we are talking. I mean the scenario could be anything from the british staying out in 1914 to a remarkable German success in late '17 or early '18.

Yes, I'd agree that a lot of the British response depends on when this victory occurs. If an early victory as was expected, then this has less far-reaching effects than the prospect of a CP victory in 1917 or '18. If only because every major player (except the US) in the latter case is pretty much exhausted militarily, physically and spiritually: while in the former, although everyone ha had to mobilise, the war has only been on for a few months or even weeks.
 
I'd suggest that ermany wouldn't keep the war going in order to get back Samoa and Papua, and I'd suggest that Britain wouldn't keep German colonies in Africa when losing them would stop the uboats. I think some arrangement could be made to settle the colony question quickly enough. I think Britain and France would enter into a tight strategic union, military alliance and trade area. Australia's interwar dependence on the Singapore strategy would be integrated with the defence of French Indochina. But I also think Australia, NZ and Canada would hedge their bets and make contact with the USA, perhaps inviting another Great White Fleet visit.
 
I will agree with the previous statements that there would be some colonial territorial loses that the Germans will just reluctantly accept or be forced to accept because of the situation. Its Pacific and Far East colonies are without a doubt lost to them. The Japanese certainly don't need to give anything back and there is very little the Germans can do to force them.

The question becomes stickier with Africa, where there could be some returns and even exchanges. I think that Germany will be busy enough integrating its gains in Europe to sign away African lands.
 
It is all relative to the strength of the Royal Navy.

If lets say that Admiral Jackie Fisher died the Chinese Wars during the late 1800's than the Royal Navy would lack behind in all aspects compared to the Germans. This would let the High Seas Fleet gain the edge it needs so Germany could claim more colonial territory.

If however it is an armstise than Germany would get much less British territory and probally take more French.
 
It is all relative to the strength of the Royal Navy.

If lets say that Admiral Jackie Fisher died the Chinese Wars during the late 1800's than the Royal Navy would lack behind in all aspects compared to the Germans. This would let the High Seas Fleet gain the edge it needs so Germany could claim more colonial territory.

If however it is an armstise than Germany would get much less British territory and probally take more French.
They might not get any British. However, they can certainly make it up by taking chunks of French. Morocco and the expansion of the Cameroon and Togoland would be good places to start. Madagascar also looks like a good piece to pinch.

Farther afield, the Germans could recoup their losses in the Pacific by taking French holdings along with Indo-China.
 
Sorry to bring this up again - because the responses so far have all been good stuff - but a lot of this depends on when the CP wins and how. As both Cockroach and myself have pointed out...

Depends on what kind of central powers victory we are talking. I mean the scenario could be anything from the british staying out in 1914 to a remarkable German sucess in late '17 or early '18.
 
Well, I guess it would need a new thread if you want the specific of how the CPs win, because otherwise we just talk round and round it here !

I still reckon a chunk of Central Africa would go to Germany; Britain would probably be compensated anyway with something French in some kind of new conference on the continent

Japan would probably have to pay something as 'purchase' of Tsingtoa, as the USA did for New Mexico after winning the war to take it. That way it would look an honourable result in Germany, as well as in Japan.

Depending on whether they want it or not, Germany might get somewhere like Paulu back in the Pacific if Japan gets the rest in complete ownership

There would also be unlikely to have any treaty forbidding Pacific fortifications etc

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
There seems to be a general current that Britain doesn't have to give up anything. That is almost certainly not going to be the case. The status of Egypt is going to change, and possibly Cyprus. No place with White populations are going to change hands, nor will India, but the British are most likely going to have to make some concessions in order to achieve a peace settlement. There is nothing critical to the empire but India.
 
There seems to be a general current that Britain doesn't have to give up anything. That is almost certainly not going to be the case. The status of Egypt is going to change, and possibly Cyprus. No place with White populations are going to change hands, nor will India, but the British are most likely going to have to make some concessions in order to achieve a peace settlement. There is nothing critical to the empire but India.

Egypt's fairly critical for the canal. I cannot really see it being given up except in the most desperate straits.
 
Egypt's fairly critical for the canal. I cannot really see it being given up except in the most desperate straits.

The canal was internationalized by treaty, which was insisted upon by Britain, although they were the only power to violate this repeatedly. The security of transit through the canal does not require British occupation of Egypt - even at the height of the Arabi crisis there was never even a whiff of threat to the canal.

In a situation where the CP are victorious, there is really no way for the British to retain control over Egypt - they lost a degree of it even in OTL in 1922.
 
The canal was internationalized by treaty, which was insisted upon by Britain, although they were the only power to violate this repeatedly. The security of transit through the canal does not require British occupation of Egypt - even at the height of the Arabi crisis there was never even a whiff of threat to the canal.

In a situation where the CP are victorious, there is really no way for the British to retain control over Egypt - they lost a degree of it even in OTL in 1922.

This all comes back to the thorny question and what CP victorious means and what state Britain is in. However the British cannot really be forced from Egypt - land attack across the Sinai would be almost impossible, which means Britain needs to have suffered a bad naval reverse for Egypt to be vulnerable.

I should think that a Britain that has just lost a war will be able to deal with internal issues in Egypt - it will be far more vicious and ruthless in its approach.
 
This all comes back to the thorny question and what CP victorious means and what state Britain is in. However the British cannot really be forced from Egypt - land attack across the Sinai would be almost impossible, which means Britain needs to have suffered a bad naval reverse for Egypt to be vulnerable.

I should think that a Britain that has just lost a war will be able to deal with internal issues in Egypt - it will be far more vicious and ruthless in its approach.

But Ottoman suzerainty would REMAIN in an CP-victorious world, so British ruthlessness is only going to work to put the lid on Egyptian independence movements or their equivalent IF the Ottomans agree, which probably means if the GERMANS agree. Note that with the Entente defeated, the deposed Khedive would be restored (I don't think he had conveniently died) so Egypt's government itself would be pro-Ottoman

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
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