Britain and Japan fight together in WW2: The Anglo-Japanese Co-Prosperitive Sphere?

what if john rabe convinces hitler to do something about the atrocities in China in order to say the Allies have no moral high ground because of Japan's presence. that would make a grimmer war...
 
But, given the surviving Anglo-Japanese alliance means butterflies, you could have for instance the National Bolshevik tendency in the Interwar German revanchist movement win out and thus have a militarist Germany allying with the Soviet Union to defeat the Western powers and redeem the German people or some such nonsense.
Not sure we'd have to butterfly it that far, though. It's often forgotten that Germany and Russia began WW2 on the same side, and partitioned Poland together. An enduring Anglo-Japanese Alliance would just give Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia each a greater incentive to maintain the alliance.

It might force Hitler to focus on the western campaigns and not squander his forces in an invasion of Russia. He'd still lose, but might be a lot harder to dislodge from Europe until the Americans got in (assuming they did).
 
The problem is, but 1941 Germany is virtually bankrupt, so they can't wait much longer before Barbarossa. Also, if Khalkin Gol plays out as OTL then Stalin won't wait much longer before pulling troops, and may in fact do it earlier if there's a proper diplomatic link via Britain.
 
Let's say the US didnt pressure the UK to terminate the Anglo-Japanese alliance in 1923 and Anglo-Japanese relations grew ever stronger in the 1930s to the point where Britain actively supported the second Sino-Japanese War and provided Japan with help during it. What would happen when it came to WW2, no doubt Japan would be hugely strong with the support of the Royal Navy, the largest navy on earth and the British and Indian armies in India, Burma, Australia, New Zealand and the other British Asian colonies could it be Britain and Japan really would dominate the Pacific, i dont think the US would be able to beat a joint Japanese Empire-British Empire force, America only beat Japan because they got lucky at Midway and because British India and resistance forces kept half of the entire Japanese Army busy in Burma and other former British and Western European colonies.

Lolwut. America beat Japan because America had several orders of magnitude more industrial might. Even if they lost Midway, America would still have crushed Japan into dust.

EDIT: And half of the army in Burma? No. No no no no no.

...after which maybe British people would support Japan more because they'd be treating the Chinese humanely, also if they learnt how Japan had raised the literacy levels in Korean from 10% in 1910 upwards, how they had brough back the Korea alphabet after it had died out during the rule of the Pro-Chinese Korean ruling class, how they had built schools, universities and other useful public buildings and cleaned up Korean cities during the occupation period.

LOLWUT?!?!?!?! Japan was brutal in her occupation of Korea, you're sounding more and more like an Imperial apologist to me.

The British aren't going to want Japan to invade China because the British had MASSIVE interests in the country, and they did NOT want one nation to control China. No matter how good Japanese propaganda is, Britain will NOT support Japan's attempt to conquer China.

USA, however was looking on in worry at how friendly Britain and Japan were together, concerned about both nations joining forces and removing American dominance in the Pacific, they worried about us making Japan a world power, possibly due to the "Yellow Peril" of the 19th and 20th century, which was far stronger in America than in Britain, so they pressured us to end it in 1923, which i find strange because surely if your worried about a nation youd want them to be great friends with one of your best allies?

That is completely wrong. America wasn't worried about Britain teaming with Japan to kick them out of the Pacific; Britain and America are too linked culturally and (more importantly) economically for Britain to be stupid enough to want to fight America just to be friends with Japan.

What you're forgetting is that the Anglo-Japanese Alliance served a specific purpose; limiting Russian expansion in China. Once the Russian Empire fell apart, the need for the alliance died with it. Britain also foresaw possible tensions between the U.S and Japan in the Pacific, and decided that if a war were to break out between the two, Britain would not want to be on Japan's side. Know why? Because she would have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose.

It wasn't American pressure that brought an end to the alliance. It was British political smarts. They KNEW that Japan didn't stand a chance in hell against America if push came to shove, they KNEW that their relations with America were worth more than their relations with Japan, and so they realized that the Alliance was no longer needed.
 

Cook

Banned
Let's say the US didnt pressure the UK to terminate the Anglo-Japanese alliance in 1923 and Anglo-Japanese relations grew ever stronger in the 1930s to the point where Britain...
Even if the alliance continued beyond 1923, there is no way it would have survived Japan’s invasion of Manchuria in 1931. The Manchurian invasion directly challenged the Collective Security that was the basis for the League of Nations. While it is likely that the British government of the day would have put pressure on Earl Lytton to change his assessment of the Mukden Incident so as not to offend Japan, the other members of the commission would still have condemned the Japanese. British public opinion would simply not have tolerated further relations with the Japanese at such a time. The later Italian invasion of Abyssinia is a good indication of what would have happened; the British government, desperate to maintain good relations and their alliance, refused to condemn Italy and concealed the extensive evidence that the Italians were using poison gas, a public outcry resulted and belatedly sanctions were weakly imposed and promptly dropped after Abyssinia was conquered, but buy then the damage to the relationship was irrevocable.
 
Even if the alliance continued beyond 1923, there is no way it would have survived Japan’s invasion of Manchuria in 1931. The Manchurian invasion directly challenged the Collective Security that was the basis for the League of Nations. While it is likely that the British government of the day would have put pressure on Earl Lytton to change his assessment of the Mukden Incident so as not to offend Japan, the other members of the commission would still have condemned the Japanese. British public opinion would simply not have tolerated further relations with the Japanese at such a time. The later Italian invasion of Abyssinia is a good indication of what would have happened; the British government, desperate to maintain good relations and their alliance, refused to condemn Italy and concealed the extensive evidence that the Italians were using poison gas, a public outcry resulted and belatedly sanctions were weakly imposed and promptly dropped after Abyssinia was conquered, but buy then the damage to the relationship was irrevocable.

Furthermore, everybody knew that as a result of a slack WWI for the Japanese (they barely got anything), their next destination would always be China. And an invasion of China will alienate the major colonial powers especially the United States, for if Japan finishes with China it will go after the Indies.

The Brits would have to go through intense public outcry for supporting the militaristic Japanese and the international condemnation successfully for the alliance to be maintained at the onset of WWII.

Perhaps in the end of the WWI, Europe gives Japan loots that will satisfy their people so that at least, the invasion of China will be averted.
 

Cook

Banned
Perhaps in the end of the WWI, Europe gives Japan loots that will satisfy their people so that at least, the invasion of China will be averted.
Japan, at very little cost, got all German territory in the Pacific north of the Equator, including the Chinese city of Tsingtao. Other than two Japanese destroyers that escorted Australian troop ships to Egypt, no Japanese forces went out of the Pacific.

The Chinese meanwhile, sent 140,000 men to labour on the western front, a not inconsiderable contribution when fighting trench warfare and one that’s considerably hazardous. In return China didn’t even get its city back or a reduction in zones controlled by the European powers it had sent aid to.
 
Japan, at very little cost, got all German territory in the Pacific north of the Equator, including the Chinese city of Tsingtao. Other than two Japanese destroyers that escorted Australian troop ships to Egypt, no Japanese forces went out of the Pacific. ]

Actually two cruisers and two destroyer flotillas were sent to Malta to aid in the Med from 1917. In short 14 Destroyers and 2 Cruisers were there until the end of the war.
 
Except that Japan never would, since that would mean having to do away with their own colonies/conquests like Korea and Taiwan.
Taiwan and Korea are fairly controllable....Taiwan was AFAIK assimilated quite easily, whereas while Japanese assimilation policy in Korea was a failure, it would be easy enough to keep tied down.
 
Japan, at very little cost, got all German territory in the Pacific north of the Equator, including the Chinese city of Tsingtao. Other than two Japanese destroyers that escorted Australian troop ships to Egypt, no Japanese forces went out of the Pacific.

The Chinese meanwhile, sent 140,000 men to labour on the western front, a not inconsiderable contribution when fighting trench warfare and one that’s considerably hazardous. In return China didn’t even get its city back or a reduction in zones controlled by the European powers it had sent aid to.

Actually Japan helped us patrol the Mediterranean, they also fought in Russia against the Reds in 1918
 
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