Britain and France invades Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

Bother Mitterrand and Thatcher opposed German reunification. Thatcher and Mitterrand feared of renewed German militarism while George HW Bush supported German reunification. What if Britain and France invaded Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification? How would the British and French public react? How would the US and the rest of NATO react? Would such an action cause a collapse of NATO? What happens to Thatcher and Mitterand? How would China, a rising world power due to have Hong Kong returned in 7 years, react? Without getting too much into modern politics, would China use the British and French invasion to justify it's treatment of Hong Kong? How would Iraq that invaded Kuwait react?

 

[Monk78]

Can Soviet forces repel that invasion and redeem in their image in eyes of the GermanS ?

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

Can Soviet forces repel that invasion and redeem in their image in eyes of the GermanS ?

Did the Soviet Union even have the forces to do so?

 

[The Tai-Pan]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

Bother Mitterrand and Thatcher opposed German reunification. Thatcher and Mitterrand feared of renewed German militarism while George HW Bush supported German reunification. What if Britain and France invaded Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification? How would the British and French public react? How would the US and the rest of NATO react? Would such an action cause a collapse of NATO? What happens to Thatcher and Mitterand? How would China, a rising world power due to have Hong Kong returned in 7 years, react? Without getting too much into modern politics, would China use the British and French invasion to justify it's treatment of Hong Kong?

The USA says 'no' and they stop. Suez anyone? But like, times a million.

 

[Monk78]

Did the Soviet Union even have the forces to do so?

I think the withdrawal happens after 1990 so Soviet group of forces in Germany plus Bundeswehr is a formidable force
The 16th air army is a joke compared to USAF but more than a match for what French and British had

plus don’t write off the GDR forces , this will bring back memories of Russians alliance with Prussians against the French

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

The USA says 'no' and they stop. Suez anyone? But like, times a million.

Did the British and French not inform the USA when they invaded Egypt?

 

[Sarthak]

the 16th air army would have decimated any French or British assault.

 

[Sarthak]

Did the British and French not inform the USA when they invaded Egypt?

they informed the americans like after the british and french warships had already left and were minutes away from starting their campaign.

 

[kmmontandon]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post.

Yeah, it kind of is.

There is NO chance, outside of ASB brainwashing, of war by NATO in 1990 to prevent German reunification.

 

[Monk78]

the 16th air army would have decimated any French or British assault.

How so please explain ?

 

[The Tai-Pan]

How so please explain ?

America is not going to allow an invasion of West Germany in 1990.

 

[Monk78]

America is not going to allow an invasion of West Germany in 1990.

Right but I’m curious To know how 250 mig29 100 mig23 and approx 300 su24 mig27 su17 would be such Easy meat for British and French

plus there are su27 in Poland and PVO mig25/31 for backup too if it’s full scale Soviet involvement

 

[Insane Ranter]

Can Soviet forces repel that invasion and redeem in their image in eyes of the GermanS ?

Why would the Soviets want to stop the British and French? The UK and France go into West German to stop unification and the Soviets just stay in the East to stop unification. Berlin would be the only sticking point. In Thatcher's eyes, the Soviets had much to lose with a unified Germany.

Now the US response would be interesting and confusing to Bush and company as well. You are basically getting NATO attacking NATO. Oddly enough you might get the US to back down and let the UK and France have their way. But, Berlin gets absorbed into East Germany as it's hard for the British and French to keep it without US help and might be the concession piece to get the USSR to help them out.

 

[Johnrankins]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

Bother Mitterrand and Thatcher opposed German reunification. Thatcher and Mitterrand feared of renewed German militarism while George HW Bush supported German reunification. What if Britain and France invaded Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification? How would the British and French public react? How would the US and the rest of NATO react? Would such an action cause a collapse of NATO? What happens to Thatcher and Mitterand? How would China, a rising world power due to have Hong Kong returned in 7 years, react? Without getting too much into modern politics, would China use the British and French invasion to justify it's treatment of Hong Kong? How would Iraq that invaded Kuwait react?

Sorry this is ASB. Mitterrand and Thatcher might have been opposed to it but that is world's away from committing political suicide by sending in troops to stop it. The political backlash would be so epic Thatcher would be losing a "no confidence" vote in parliament the moment she seriously suggests it. I don't know the French system enough to know what they would do, maybe declare him insane.

 

[chankljp]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

But.... How could this NOT be ASB? As other users have pointed out, it was one thing for Thatcher and Mitterrand to politically oppose German reunification, but something else entirely for the UK and France to actually freaking invade the FRG, a fellow NATO member and also a Western democracy, in order to do so. And unlike a dictatorship in which the head of government have absolute control, Thatcher and Mitterrand would have been overwritten and removed from power by the the rest of their government long before things got to the point of an actual invasion being launched.

At most, I can see them getting away with covertly launching false flag terrorists attacks as the RAF across Germany in order to disrupt and postpone reunification, but even that is really, really pushing it in terms of plausibility.

 

[MrHaakwood]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

Bother Mitterrand and Thatcher opposed German reunification. Thatcher and Mitterrand feared of renewed German militarism while George HW Bush supported German reunification. What if Britain and France invaded Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification? How would the British and French public react? How would the US and the rest of NATO react? Would such an action cause a collapse of NATO? What happens to Thatcher and Mitterand? How would China, a rising world power due to have Hong Kong returned in 7 years, react? Without getting too much into modern politics, would China use the British and French invasion to justify it's treatment of Hong Kong? How would Iraq that invaded Kuwait react?

It is ASB, because you need magic to brainwash the French & British leadership to do this. In regards oppositon to German reunification: Mitterrand wasnt opposed, he only acted like it to get something out of Germany. To be precise: the Euro. Classical politics. Now Thatcher was different, her opposition was genuine anti German hatred. Runing around with maps from Germanys past and predicting imment war....because you know Germans. The problem was that this was nonsense & everybody expect her knew this. So while she was busy embarrassing herself German reunification became a reality. In the end Paris and especially Londons influence on the process was marginal compared to Washington and Moskau.
So in a scenario where Mitterrand and Thatcher get brainwashed by magic, they both get quietly or not so quietly removed, because they got insane. In the case that the French and British population are also enchanted and really go through with this...well its a clear case for NATO. A member state got attacked. The USA can protect Germany or do nothing and lose all clout. The rest of NATO joins Germany in defense to protect themself from the insane warmongers. The outcome would be a brutal war and probably a much more violent breakup of the Soviet Union. Germany doesnt have the money to wage war, rebuilt and pay the Soviet Union for reunification at the same time. Nevertheless reunification still happens.
Alsace lorraine becomes German again & the Britisch get a Bavarian king. End of story/

 

[sarahz]

BEFORE YOU READ : This is not an ASB post. The following is written based on actual politics of the time.

Bother Mitterrand and Thatcher opposed German reunification. Thatcher and Mitterrand feared of renewed German militarism while George HW Bush supported German reunification. What if Britain and France invaded Germany in 1990 to stop German reunification? How would the British and French public react? How would the US and the rest of NATO react? Would such an action cause a collapse of NATO? What happens to Thatcher and Mitterand? How would China, a rising world power due to have Hong Kong returned in 7 years, react? Without getting too much into modern politics, would China use the British and French invasion to justify it's treatment of Hong Kong? How would Iraq that invaded Kuwait react?

Pretty much is ASB. There is no way this happens . Generally democracies do' not declare war on other democracies If you dont count the CSA as a democracy the only eg is Finland V Britain in the continuation war. No shots were exchanged. Even if the 2 leaders were that insane without US and German support just how does one stop the Russian countermove. How do you govern an occupied democracy whose right to self determination you just destroyed. What do you say to Argentina when they once again demand the Malvinas or to the US when it demands Ulster be given to Ireland. You cant start spouting off about the right of people to govern themselves then, you have made it clear only the gun matters, and sadly Britain and France although still powerful can not rule the world by force. There are bigger players .

 

[Mikey]

There's a distinction between France and the UK committing themselves to fight German unification on all sorts of diplomatic and economic battlefields, and them starting an actual, factual shooting war over it. Thatcher and Mitterand also can't declare wars unilaterally; they'd need authorization from their respective governments.

Plus, given the US military bases in Germany, this is basically a declaration of war on the United States.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

I asked my father how Mitterrand seemed to have experienced German reunification.
What seemed to bother Mitterrand was the fact that events were pushing him to acquiesce to German unification when he had not yet consented to it. Mitterrand wanted a "fusion" of the GDR and the FRG because France recognized both states and did not want to privilege one over the other (this is an analysis that completely ignores the speed at which the communist Eastern bloc disappeared).
Finally, there were two additional fears:
The first was that the Germans would have fun touching the borders in the east (in Pomerania, Silesia and Prussia) which would have caused a monster mess. But in spite of a few enthusiasts this idea was very much abandoned by the German government.
The second was that the Germans were gaining an inordinate amount of weight in Europe. The FRG weighed the same economic weight as France, but with the reunification the country gained in future power. In addition, the door was opened to German ambitions in Eastern Europe. These two observations pushed Mitterrand to prevent that Germany makes band apart. Mitterrand thus sought to push a little more the European construction with a single currency to hold Germany to Europe (as Mitterrand said then "I nailed the hand of Germany to the table of negotiations"). Germany's two main conditions were that the euro be pegged to the Deutschemark and that Eastern Europe join the EU.
Politically we still feel it today (so I won't talk about it here).

For there to be a Franco-British military intervention, Germany would have to do anything and the GDR would not have to disappear so quickly. And even that is not the most likely scenario in view of what I have listed above.

Alsace lorraine becomes German again & the Britisch get a Bavarian king. End of story/

I don't know if you're serious about the premise, but I don't see NATO going to war against two of its most important members who also have the nuclear bomb. 🤪
"End of Story", please, no. 🤪

 

[Resurgam]

Why would they think this is a good idea? Why would the rest of the government and the military agree?

It's not like the army just says "OKAY ME AM DO" to any insane idea the civilian leadership says.