Brit Empire on the Continent

What would it take to extend the English crowns 18th Century possesions in the German states into a larger and more permanent realm of the empire? Laarge and solid enough it forstalls or changes the character of the late 19th Century German empire? Is eventually a British Dominion on the continent possible? Or even marriage bringing the British king to directly rule in a German kingdom?
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
What comes to mind is either

a) Something to do with Kaiser Wilhelm - perhaps he inherits the British Empire before the German?

OR (My preference)

b) The British Empire on the defeat of Napoleon both in Spain and in France, that the Kings of Spain, the Kings of France (and the Dutch) are vassals of the British Empire - maybe Portugal, but I'd doubt it - with the French and Spanish realms to be divided between two heirs each on their deaths.

Merge that with supporting the Prussians in either a claim on a re-established HRE, or the Austrians, and you could see the single maddest expansion of the British Empire on the continent - and sadly, probably the only one that wouldn't be absurdly vulnerable. It is hard to maintain a continental empire, when most of your strength isn't continental.

No idea how they'd enforce it - but if Britain could win the war against Napoleonic France, then even a titular Empire on the continent may be achievable.
 
What would it take to extend the English crowns 18th Century possesions in the German states into a larger and more permanent realm of the empire? Large and solid enough it forestalls or changes the character of the late 19th Century German empire? Is eventually a British Dominion on the continent possible? Or even marriage bringing the British king to directly rule in a German kingdom?
Well Hanover was never really a part of the British Empire, however complex organisationally that actually was, simply in personal union and the British government generally considered it to be a bloody nuisance and would have liked to of been shot of it so I can't ever see it being added officially. Even becoming a dominion is likely impossible since you would need to find some way of derailing German nationalism and popular feeling for unification, even then I'm guessing Hanover would of had more trade opportunities with Germany that the UK which is another strike against the idea. That being said there are a number of things that could happen with it that have the potential to radically change how Germany develops.

Slight digression for the moment though. If you just want the British Empire holding territory on the continent then the easiest solution is to have Britain claim/somehow wind up regaining the Pale of Calais during the dividing up of Europe after the Napoleonic wars. IIRC it used to run roughly from Cape Wissant south-east down towards Marquise then north-east-east towards Audruicq before turning north-north-east-ish to hit the coast two thirds of the way to Gravelines. That would give you an exclave about twenty miles long and six miles deep.

But on to Germany! The first step is to avoid severing the personal union between Hanover and Britain that occurred when Victoria became Queen. Her uncle instituted a new rather liberal constitution in Hanover four years before he died, simple enough to have him decide that if his niece is good enough to rule the British Empire she's good enough to rule a German kingdom and change the succession laws at the same time. Come the Austro-Prussian War in 1866 the Battle of Koniggratz, which was much closer that most people expect, goes the Austrian's way and they win the war. During the peace negotiations they annex a number of the surrounding nations that sides with Prussia during the war - Bremen, Hamburg, Lippe-Detmold, Prussian territory north of the Ems river, potentially Oldenburg etc. - and Prussia forfeits their territory in the west and central Germany. IIRC they either resign from or denounced the German Confederation right before launching the war so I could easily see them being excluded from it and the Zollverein for a good five or ten years before being let back in. All of which adds up to them being fairly unlikely to lead any future unification of Germany.

Then you just need to scheme to somehow get Hanover to lead any future unification. One crazy idea I had was for a Frankfurt Parliament that tries to unify Germany by excluding Austria and this smaller Prussia and asking Queen Victoria to be head of state in a purely constitutional monarchy position. She has the prestige, is more likely to be interested in the British Empire so won't try and influence things in Germany too much, her husband Prince Albert is suitable German etc. The other half of the deal is that the future Edward VII is required to renounce his position as heir to Hanover in favour of her second son Alfred who by this point was already set to become Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha as the current ruler Ernest II was pretty unlikely to be having any children by that point. Victoria becomes Empress of Germany in the purely ceremonial role only travelling there once or twice a year for official purposes and on her death in 1901 Alfred becomes King of Hanover, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and most importantly of all Emperor of Germany. Due to his future position he probably won't have joined the Royal Navy but instead be spending a lot of time in Hanover and Germany instead in preparation. Since I'm guessing that this new German Empire would be more of a federation than unitary state I wouldn't be surprised if Prussia had joined it at some point in the intervening period.
 
Well Hanover was never really a part of the British Empire, however complex organisationally that actually was, simply in personal union and the British government generally considered it to be a bloody nuisance and would have liked to of been shot of it so I can't ever see it being added officially.
Technically, the OP referred to 'part of the English Crown', rather than British Empire, but that, too, is incorrect. While they shared wearers, the Crowns were quite distinct.

But on to Germany! The first step is to avoid severing the personal union between Hanover and Britain that occurred when Victoria became Queen. Her uncle instituted a new rather liberal constitution in Hanover four years before he died, simple enough to have him decide that if his niece is good enough to rule the British Empire she's good enough to rule a German kingdom and change the succession laws at the same time.

1) Salic Law was DEEPLY ingrained in the Germanies. It would take a LOT more than William deciding to change the rules. Could it have been done? Austria managed it with the Pragmatic Sanction, letting Maria Theresa take the Purple, so the precedent is there. BUT, there was a LOT of arm-twisting involved, and I'm not sure the rest of the German princes are as willing to be arm twisted by Britain than by the Emperor.

2) as pointed out, the British Parliament really didn't want Hannover.

3) if the above objections are dealt with, which is hard, but not impossible, then your scheme of Hannover uniting Germany just won't fly. No way is a British stalking horse (or perceived one) going to unite Germany appealing to German nationalism. O, I suppose, that if there were an existential threat posed by ??Russia, and the Germanies were about to be swallowed up and conquered unless they got British help, they might let Hannover try. But again, the British Parliament would have absolute fits.
 
1) Salic Law was DEEPLY ingrained in the Germanies. It would take a LOT more than William deciding to change the rules. Could it have been done? Austria managed it with the Pragmatic Sanction, letting Maria Theresa take the Purple, so the precedent is there. BUT, there was a LOT of arm-twisting involved, and I'm not sure the rest of the German princes are as willing to be arm twisted by Britain than by the Emperor.

2) As pointed out, the British Parliament really didn't want Hannover.
Well from the local Hanoverian perspective, at least for the establishment, they'd have the choice of either going along with the change which has the benefit of cementing their new liberal constitution whilst continuing to effectively run their own affairs due to the monarch being in the UK or fight the change which means they get a new resident monarch who wasn't exactly the nicest chap ever and from previous actions looks like he's going to be much more dictatorial and involved in throwing his weight about by actively ruling. If I was them I know which one I'd definitely prefer.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
You know, there's the possibility Victoria might die

Without an heir, male or female - if she died in childbirth with her first child (not unlikely in the Nineteenth Century), it would seem Ernest would have the best claim by far, so the personal union returns...

Raises all sorts of interesting questions.

Best,
 
Top