Brilliant Lesser Know CSA Generals/USA Generals during ACW

Hi

So, I'm thinking about writing a TL with a Lesser Known but still Brilliant CSA General becoming the head of the CSA Military and facing off with a Lesser known brilliant Union Generals in the Civil War. Who would be the best example of this?

(If a thread like this has been made, may I receive a link?)
 
Off the top of my head, I can contribute a few names:
Confederate:
William J. Hardee: Hardee was one of the most respected officers in the Old Army and wrote Hardee's Tactics at the behest of Jefferson Davis during Davis' tenure as Secretary of War. Hardee was fairly senior during the American Civil War, he was fairly senior-lieutenant general on October 10th, one day after Longstreet's. The only issue is that Hardee's record is rather mixed-he certainly had brilliant and competent moments like his assault of Rosecrans' right on the 1st day of Stones' River, his delaying action at Averasboro, and the desperate cavalry charge at Bentonville; however, that glosses over Hardee's less than finer moments, such as his very lackluster performance in the Atlanta Campaign, and his negligence during the Tullahoma Campaign (this nearly cost Bragg the Army of Tennessee). Erza Warner's Generals in Gray called him one of the best corps commanders in Confederate service, but it feels like a superficial description when you study his career in detail. Nevertheless, Hardee is one option available.

Union:
Charles F. Smith: A very interesting what-if; Charles F. Smith was considered to be the model soldier in the Old Army and constantly praised by high ranking Union generals (Grant, Sherman, Halleck and McClellan all praised him). The initial days of the American Civil War saw him responsible for organizing the defense of Washington D.C. for 13 days until Major General Robert Patterson arrived, C.F. Smith was then sent off to Fort Columbus as he had been originally assigned to. Although McClellan sought out to have Smith in his staff, Smith found himself sent to Paducah in order to take charge of the Department of Western Kentucky, which was later absorbed into Grant's command. Smith proved to be a strict but fair trainer of volunteers and Halleck considered his troops to be the most disciplined in the Western Theatre (though Smith took that as a sign of how badly disciplined the other volunteers were). In addition, he proved to be an excellent administrator and greatly understood the importance of staff (though Smith would deride the quality of most of the men acting as his staff). His combat performance was good as far as his short record in the ACW shows. He correctly identified the weakness of Fort Henry and led his division skillfully at Fort Donelson. The only issue with getting him into a high position was his supposed Southern sympathies (proven false) that the newspapers accused him of, he was also around Lee's age.
 
A C.F. Smith TL would be a lot of fun.

On the Confederate side there is always the old standby Patrick Cleburne, but its hard to see how you could bump him up the ranks fast enough for a theater command of significance.
 
Based on my knowledge of Smith he's one of the better lesser known generals who could have aspired to greatness. I chucked him up north to invade Canada West in my TL :p

I mean going for lesser known or deceased too early generals you've got Nathaniel Lyons who died early but had a stellar record before the war, then there's George Thomas (obviously), potential William Whiting on the CSA side had he not been constantly insubordinate as many considered him a good leader early in the war, but he was constantly talking back. John B. Magruder, whose theatrics completely stalled McClellan's Peninsula Campaign and had one of the few unqualified successes against the blockade by recapturing Galveston is another CSA officer who might have achieved more had he not earned the ire of Lee.
 
Thank you all for the suggestions. I am certainly taking into consideration each of them.

Especially this one:

A C.F. Smith TL would be a lot of fun.

On the Confederate side there is always the old standby Patrick Cleburne, but its hard to see how you could bump him up the ranks fast enough for a theater command of significance.

For Cleburne, would it be possible for ASJ to promote after he proves himself quite well in several battles?
 
Shoot, how about ASJ? He seems overrated in what we know of him before his death, but a lot of people whose judgment should mean something thought that he was All That. I think you could plausibly make another Lee out of him. Starts weak but as he develops the right subordinates, a flawed but still brilliant commander.

AS Johnston vs. C.F. Smith would be a thrilling TL.
 
Shoot, how about ASJ? He seems overrated in what we know of him before his death, but a lot of people whose judgment should mean something thought that he was All That. I think you could plausibly make another Lee out of him. Starts weak but as he develops the right subordinates, a flawed but still brilliant commander.

AS Johnston vs. C.F. Smith would be a thrilling TL.

Believe it or not, I'm actually writing the first update to a ACW TL that I hope is interesting to every reader. ASJ and Cleburne serve major parts in said TL
 

samcster94

Banned
A C.F. Smith TL would be a lot of fun.

On the Confederate side there is always the old standby Patrick Cleburne, but its hard to see how you could bump him up the ranks fast enough for a theater command of significance.
Cleburne becoming a major general had zero chance. He was an immigrant, rather young, and was too moderate on slavery(he wanted to arm slaves to fight for the South).
 
For Cleburne, would it be possible for ASJ to promote after he proves himself quite well in several battles?
As fun as it might be to promote Cleburne for his excellent performance at the division level, a problem is that Cleburne was still just a brigade commander at the time of Shiloh. Even if ASJ decides to have Bragg act just as his chief of staff instead of acting as both Corps commander AND chief of staff, a lot of officers still have seniority over Cleburne and will receive Bragg’s position instead.

Even if Cleburne becomes ASJ’s favourite subordinate, another issue is the fact that the turnover rate for Confederate Corps comnanders is very low. A situation that causes a replacement in Corps command often involves the previous Corps commander being severely wounded/killed (very few occasions-Jackson and Polk), disfavoured (Ewell, though only Lee had enough clout to convince Davis) and command transfers.
 
Cleburne becoming a major general had zero chance. He was an immigrant, rather young, and was too moderate on slavery(he wanted to arm slaves to fight for the South).

IIRC, he was in his 40s, which is a good age for Major General, the Immigrant part can be skipped as we look at the Union and see Kearny, and he never expressed his views on Slavery openly until 1863 (which was when he wanted to arm slaves). He only stated he had no care for them like every Union and Confederate thought because they were fighting either for their state or to preserve the Union.
 
As fun as it might be to promote Cleburne for his excellent performance at the division level, a problem is that Cleburne was still just a brigade commander at the time of Shiloh. Even if ASJ decides to have Bragg act just as his chief of staff instead of acting as both Corps commander AND chief of staff, a lot of officers still have seniority over Cleburne and will receive Bragg’s position instead.

Even if Cleburne becomes ASJ’s favourite subordinate, another issue is the fact that the turnover rate for Confederate Corps comnanders is very low. A situation that causes a replacement in Corps command often involves the previous Corps commander being severely wounded/killed (very few occasions-Jackson and Polk), disfavoured (Ewell, though only Lee had enough clout to convince Davis) and command transfers.

I'm not going to put him in command of a Corps right out of the gate, only give him clout as a Division Commander before he can become a corps Commander, which would probably after OTL 2nd Corinth
 
I'm not going to put him in command of a Corps right out of the gate, only give him clout as a Division Commander before he can become a corps Commander, which would probably after OTL 2nd Corinth
I see, but the issue is that the Army of Tennessee is a bit too small for the formation of a third Corps and Cleburne is too junior to too many officers to be promoted to Corps command.

On the first point, the 3 Confederate Corps at Shiloh had their brigades directly reporting to them, no division organization whatsoever. After reorganization the Army of Tennessee had only two Corps: Polk’s and Hardee’s (OTL). Assuming that Bragg is acting as ASJ’s CoS, those two Corps will still go to Polk and Hardee, no ifs and buts.

Even if one of these Corps commanders fall in battle/incapacitated, ASJ could not simply overlook the issue of seniority in favour of Cleburne. Cheatham, Breckinridge and A.P. Stewart would be too senior to be overlooked, especially with their competent performances.
 
And not to mention it was hard for a non west pointer or vmi graduate to gain corps or army command.
 
I see, but the issue is that the Army of Tennessee is a bit too small for the formation of a third Corps and Cleburne is too junior to too many officers to be promoted to Corps command.

On the first point, the 3 Confederate Corps at Shiloh had their brigades directly reporting to them, no division organization whatsoever. After reorganization the Army of Tennessee had only two Corps: Polk’s and Hardee’s (OTL). Assuming that Bragg is acting as ASJ’s CoS, those two Corps will still go to Polk and Hardee, no ifs and buts.

Even if one of these Corps commanders fall in battle/incapacitated, ASJ could not simply overlook the issue of seniority in favour of Cleburne. Cheatham, Breckinridge and A.P. Stewart would be too senior to be overlooked, especially with their competent performances.

And not to mention it was hard for a non west pointer or vmi graduate to gain corps or army command.

Both criticism has been noted and will fall into consideration though Breckenridge I plan to have a important posting the Timeline other than Corps Commander.

Of course, there’s that old insane madman Phillip Kearney.

I read about him. Seemed like a good general, but nope only crazy. I might include him in the TL.
 
And not to mention it was hard for a non west pointer or vmi graduate to gain corps or army command.
Only counterexamples that spring to mind are Richard Taylor, Wade Hampton, and Nathan Bedford Forrest. Two of them had the advantage of coming from prominent families.
 
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