Breaking up the US of A

i know this has probably been hashed over a million times. but i thought i'd throw my top hat into the pile and see what happens. I'm working on a steam punk / diesel punk novel. currently I have it set in the 1875 the following has happened.

The US lost the war with England. Arnold's betrayal was not stopped. and the Commonwealth of American Provinces was formed.

France does not sell the Louisiana Territory, rather forms the New French Republic.

1863 civil war breaks out and last till 1866 when the south starts using mustard gas on the battle field. The north finally sues for peace under the threat of more gas attacks and an increasingly aggressive NFR

The Union of Southern Socialist Provinces as formed.
Texas breaks from the USSP, taking everything west of the Mississippi and as far up as the Arkansas territory with it.

NFR X Texan war is short lived and the Mississippi River Free Trade Zone is set up giving the NFR access to the gulf which was being blocked by the texans. the Zone extends 50 miles on each side of the river and from the gulf to memphis

the MRFTZ is pretty much a lawless zone with each city defending itself.

The NFR annexes Northern Illinois and Minnesota, giving it access to the Great lakes and the pacific. The CAP is prevented from retaking this area do to a combined threat of the USSP/NFR

NFR extends its territory west to the foot of the rockies as well as joins with the Free Quebec republic to take the southern part of canada from the British with the exception of British Columbia

Texas makes peace with Mexico as well as annexes as far south as the Yucatan and as far east as the arizona border. the norther border runs along the upper oklahoma border and runs east till it hits Utah border.

California breaks from the USSP to form the Empire of California.
Invades and takes baja california from Mexixo as well as nevada and arizona. the oregon territory as well as BC become states of the EC as does the Yukon and Alaska.


That's pretty much it. Any feed back would be helpful. Thanks
 
and how did the south all of a sudden get such a high tech level?

Although it was discovered early, for mass production you need a advanced chemical industry. very very doubtful they could manufacture pure mustard gas in quantities big enough to be useful on the battlefield.


its just too early for large scale production of any gas.
even something simple as chlorine was only first produced on a industrial scale in 1892.
 

GarethC

Donor
The US lost the war with England. Arnold's betrayal was not stopped. and the Commonwealth of American Provinces was formed.
What territory is in the CAP? What is its ongoing relationship with Britain?

France does not sell the Louisiana Territory, rather forms the New French Republic.
I do not see any French regime willing to create a separate republic from Louisiana - either it will remain a colony under Paris, or it will be cut loose entirely (and then be unable to prevent its annexation by the US and Britain). Will the NFR not be ceded to Britain in 1815 if it is still French?

If France remains a strategic competitor to Britain, is there a Crimean War?

1863 civil war breaks out and last till 1866 when the south starts using mustard gas on the battle field. The north finally sues for peace under the threat of more gas attacks and an increasingly aggressive NFR.
What compels Union surrender - battlefield defeat and a failure of nerve among the leadership, the occupation of major cities or other forms of economic ruin, or a direct threat to the leadership from an advance on Washington?

The Union of Southern Socialist Provinces as formed.
Texas breaks from the USSP, taking everything west of the Mississippi and as far up as the Arkansas territory with it.
Does the USSP retain slavery? Does Texas?

NFR X Texan war is short lived and the Mississippi River Free Trade Zone is set up giving the NFR access to the gulf which was being blocked by the texans. the Zone extends 50 miles on each side of the river and from the gulf to memphis

the MRFTZ is pretty much a lawless zone with each city defending itself.

The NFR annexes Northern Illinois and Minnesota, giving it access to the Great lakes and the pacific. The CAP is prevented from retaking this area do to a combined threat of the USSP/NFR
What is the relation between Britain and France? Has there been a Waterloo and von Metternich afterwards? Britain would be deeply sceptical about a French expansion like this (where "deeply sceptical" means "sabre-rattling jingoism until they calm down, else war").

Does this butterfly away Maximilien and the Mexican Empire? If so, what does Maximilien's survival mean for Austria-Hungary? How does that affect the Italian risorgimento, and the Prussian unification of Germany - does Austria still face Prussia without French aid if Napoleon III is not smarting after the failure of his Mexican adventure? How do the Prusso-Danish, Austro-Prussian, and Franco-Prussian Wars get played out?

NFR extends its territory west to the foot of the rockies as well as joins with the Free Quebec republic to take the southern part of canada from the British with the exception of British Columbia
So France didn't lose Canada in the Seven Years' War? Is the NFR actually able to do this? The 1800s are the century of the Royal Navy's dominance, and France would not be able to contest a blockade of Louisiana's ports, preventing reinforcement up the Mississippi.

Texas makes peace with Mexico as well as annexes as far south as the Yucatan and as far east as the arizona border. the norther border runs along the upper oklahoma border and runs east till it hits Utah border.
If France retains Louisiana, would Texas ever have joined the USA? Indeed, would it have even formed a republic, absent French support?

California breaks from the USSP to form the Empire of California.
Invades and takes baja california from Mexixo as well as nevada and arizona. the oregon territory as well as BC become states of the EC as does the Yukon and Alaska.
If Louisiana remains French, then is there a Mexican-American War analogue to take California (well, the top bit) away from Mexico? Is there still a Gold Rush to give it some population?

Is it not more likely that California breaks away from Mexico to form the Republic of California? If it's an Empire, who is the Emperor and how did he or she manage to get the job?
 
The US lost the war with England. Arnold's betrayal was not stopped. and the Commonwealth of American Provinces was formed.

So there’s no USA at all. Okay! Problem solved, so…

France does not sell the Louisiana Territory, rather forms the New French Republic.

Oh, it continues.

1863 civil war breaks out

Wait, how? So this is a British Civil War?

…when the south starts using mustard gas on the battle field.

Well, that’s only 20 years before we realized it could be weaponized and 50 years before it was first mass produced…

The Union of Southern Socialist Provinces as formed.

Dixie Commies: The Story of the Working Class that Wasn’t Equal

I’m working on a… …novel.

Oh dear. :eek:
 
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wow! i didn't expect such a detailed response.

As for the war of 1812. I don't see that really happening since The CAP is more akin to Canada with a Prime minster under the rule of england.

As far as the crimean war, I hadn't given it much thought. i wasn't the globally I guess :D and I have only recently found out about the 7 year war so that didn't come into play at.

As far as the Mustard gas goes, i was trying to come up with a reason for the south to remain separate from the north. the New French republic is again sort stand alone country yet getting aid from France. as far as being annexed by the north in 1815 again it wasn't something I have given much thought.

As far as the Cali-Mex war was fought in 1836 to 1841 when California spread westward as well as south. Resulting in a southern California border much as the SW is today, with the except of Cali retaining the Baja peninsula and the state of Sonora. Withe backing of the NFR the western border of the Texan republic was set at 109 degrees 03' west. Texas was also able to annex the Mexican states of Tampaylipas, Nuevo Leon and coahila


I hope this doesn't make matters worse. Still new to the Alternate world building. LOL


 
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